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Tourmaline

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It's on the lower right when 2018 is on the screen in the video. Anyways, you guys also see the tweet Sakurai put out? https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/971885028245307392

 

Translates to, "Right now we're just at the stage where we revealed this game, but I've been working on this game in silence day after day. Please wait until we can release more information, or until release day!"

 

So Sakurai is still working on the series.

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I mainly want Ike and Cloud. Depending on how good they are, Inkling or Bowser would be my mains.

 

For dream characters, with Inkling already in, I advocate for Midna: have always thought she could have a cool moveset, using her hair for ranged grabs. But as years go through, and no Twilight Princess remake for Switch, it becomes less and less likely.

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My personal thoughts:

 

Given the three big shadows in the trailer, either Charizard returns or Ganon gets a Hyrule Warriors/generally bulkier redesign.

 

BotW Link opens the door to the possibility of the default Zelda skin being BotW Zelda, which is neat.

 

Honestly, the only cuts I would make to the roster that make any sense is Duck Hunt (thank you, phone, for making me need to fix that from "funk Hut"), and collapsing Lucina into Marth as a skin, because I honestly like Sm4sh's roster a lot. Some repetition so that you can jump between characters without issue, but enough sheer variety that the game feels balanced, at least in terms of roster. Given the unofficial "six per emblem" rule, here's the roster as I would like it to be, additions bolded to stand out:

 

Mario:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Bowser, Bowser Jr.

Yoshi's Island:

Yoshi

WarioWare:

Wario, Waluigi (please, he's the only Italian we don't have in Smash).

Donkey Kong:

DK, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool(not entirely sure here, but at least a gun character would replace Mii Gunner in the short list of fun projectile-based characters in the game)

Fire Emblem:

Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Corrin, LITERALLY ANY AXE WIELDER OR MAGE

Bayonetta:

Bayonetta

Mega Man:

Mega Man

MOTHER:

Ness, Lucas

Punch-Out!:

Little Mac

Pac-Man:

Pac-Man

Okami:

Amaterasu (We're getting a rerelease, put Best Goddess in Sma5h), Waka (unlikely, but he'd put a unique spin on sword characters beyond "give them a good ground game and a counter, there's a character for you", as a dual-wielding dude who can fly)

Kid Icarus:

Pit, Dark Pit (I actually prefer Dark Pit's more aggressive game with the Electroshock Arm and more powerful, less directionally influenceable arrows), Palutena

Pokémon:

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario (while I personally don't like Lucario all that much, he's too popular and too well established to cut now, despite my desire for Decidueye or Sceptile to fill his spot)

Final Fantasy:

Cloud, Terra (FF6 is better, fight me. I also really felt Paine, at least as a Cloud skin, because I actually enjoyed X-2, but that game's not as popular as the 4-6-7-8 juggernauts)

F-Zero:

Captain Falcon, ANYONE. GIVE FANS HOPE FOR F-ZERO.

The Legend of Zelda:

Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik maybe a sixth representative? Not sure on any one character marketable enough to pull it off, despite my desire for a Majora's Mask inspired Young Link, or maybe one of the Guardians in BotW

Kirby:

Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight

Game & Watch:

Mr. Game & Watch

Metroid:

Samus, Zero Suit Samus, probably a new representative to promote Prime 4

Xenoblade:

Shulk, someone from Xenoblade 2? Haven't played it yet

SONIC THE HEDGEHOG:

Sonic, Knuckles (his sheer popularity might get him in if nothing else, and a lightweight rushdown character with an air game would be interesting to see if nothing else)

Animal Crossing:

Villager

Star Fox:

Fox, Falco

R.O.B.:

R.O.B

Splatoon:

Inkling/Octoling (I see the possibility of boy and girl options for both being costume options)

Street Fighter (the one most likely to be cut):

Ryu (while I'm honestly a fan of the idea of implementing other popular SF characters, being partial to seeing Bison or Juri for some villainous fun, I don't see it happening)

Metal Gear Solid (super wishful thinking):

Solid Snake (please?)

 

I honestly don't want much in the way of major changes. The roster was already very polished, if a bit oversaturated with pointy metal.

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You seem a bit biased there. You want to merge Lucina into Marth but not Dark Pit into Pit? xD

Octoling could very well an alternate skin for Inkling, yeah.

IDK, I liked Duck Hunt and would like for it to stay, but actually competitively viable this time.

A 6th Zelda representative is possible yeah, specially with Hyrule Warriors around. Wouldn't be surprised if they picked Lana.

As an additional F-Zero representative I nominate Black Shadow. Another Ganondorf-ish character, or rather, Melee Ganondorf, who already shared some moves with Falcon.

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The thing is that Lucina takes away from Marth's playstyle (tipper) without actively adding anything. She's almost objectively worse, aside from being very popular waifu bait. Dark Pit plays slightly differently from Pit, but just differently enough to count; he requires a much more aggressive, damage-oriented playstyle, rather than OG Pit's preference for keeping the opponent offstage to whack with the Upperdash Arm and control more effectively with easier to control arrows. The YGO equivalent is playing going-first and going-second variants of the same Deck: one is more aggressive and focused on aggressive single-minded rush, the other is more control-oriented to keep the opponent at a disadvantage.

 

Also just realized I forgot Wii Fit Trainer existed at all lol

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Wait, so it’s not Smash 4 Deluxe?

Well damn, that changes everything, especially if it’s coming this year.

 

I’m gonna lay out a few things before I elaborate:

 

Game Mechanics: I don’t see Nintendo wanting to change anything as far as mechanics go. I would like to see a general nerf to shields in this new title but I suppose smash from now on will be inherently all about spacing, reads, and kill setups rather than combos and gimps at the ledge. Trumping will probably come back and be just as powerful.

 

Characters: Inklings have been confirmed, and Ice Climbers are very likely because no more software limitations and basically everyone who played smash before 4 wants them back. Shovel Knight is a reasonable candidate for a fighter because he has a lot of ways to create a moveset. Ridley is still too big though. Also I may consider not getting this game if they decide to put time and effort into any more new fire emblem characters.

 

Stages: Who cares lol. If we’re lucky there will be one new competitive stage. Otherwise it’s just BF, FD, and animal crossing

 

Customs: Probably coming back. If they’re not absurdly broken like DK’s then they could end up in tournaments.

 

Also dammit hina I wanted to make this thread

My personal thoughts:

Given the three big shadows in the trailer, either Charizard returns or Ganon gets a Hyrule Warriors/generally bulkier redesign.

BotW Link opens the door to the possibility of the default Zelda skin being BotW Zelda, which is neat.

Honestly, the only cuts I would make to the roster that make any sense is Duck Hunt (thank you, phone, for making me need to fix that from "funk Hut"), and collapsing Lucina into Marth as a skin, because I honestly like Sm4sh's roster a lot. Some repetition so that you can jump between characters without issue, but enough sheer variety that the game feels balanced, at least in terms of roster. Given the unofficial "six per emblem" rule, here's the roster as I would like it to be, additions bolded to stand out:

Mario:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Bowser, Bowser Jr.

Yoshi's Island:

Yoshi

WarioWare:

Wario, Waluigi (please, he's the only Italian we don't have in Smash).

Donkey Kong:

DK, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool(not entirely sure here, but at least a gun character would replace Mii Gunner in the short list of fun projectile-based characters in the game)

Fire Emblem:

Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Corrin, LITERALLY ANY AXE WIELDER OR MAGE

Bayonetta:

Bayonetta

Mega Man:

Mega Man

MOTHER:

Ness, Lucas

Punch-Out!:

Little Mac

Pac-Man:

Pac-Man Okami:

Amaterasu (We're getting a rerelease, put Best Goddess in Sma5h), Waka (unlikely, but he'd put a unique spin on sword characters beyond "give them a good ground game and a counter, there's a character for you", as a dual-wielding dude who can fly)

Kid Icarus:

Pit, Dark Pit (I actually prefer Dark Pit's more aggressive game with the Electroshock Arm and more powerful, less directionally influenceable arrows), Palutena

Pokémon:

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario (while I personally don't like Lucario all that much, he's too popular and too well established to cut now, despite my desire for Decidueye or Sceptile to fill his spot)

Final Fantasy:

Cloud, Terra (FF6 is better, fight me. I also really felt Paine, at least as a Cloud skin, because I actually enjoyed X-2, but that game's not as popular as the 4-6-7-8 juggernauts)

F-Zero:

Captain Falcon, ANYONE. GIVE FANS HOPE FOR F-ZERO.

The Legend of Zelda:

Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik maybe a sixth representative? Not sure on any one character marketable enough to pull it off, despite my desire for a Majora's Mask inspired Young Link, or maybe one of the Guardians in BotW

Kirby:

Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight

Game & Watch:

Mr. Game & Watch

Metroid:

Samus, Zero Suit Samus, probably a new representative to promote Prime 4

Xenoblade:

Shulk, someone from Xenoblade 2? Haven't played it yet

SONIC THE HEDGEHOG:

Sonic, Knuckles (his sheer popularity might get him in if nothing else, and a lightweight rushdown character with an air game would be interesting to see if nothing else)

Animal Crossing:

Villager

Star Fox:

Fox, Falco

R.O.B.:

R.O.B

Splatoon:

Inkling/Octoling (I see the possibility of boy and girl options for both being costume options)

Street Fighter (the one most likely to be cut):

Ryu (while I'm honestly a fan of the idea of implementing other popular SF characters, being partial to seeing Bison or Juri for some villainous fun, I don't see it happening)

Metal Gear Solid (super wishful thinking):

Solid Snake (please?)

I honestly don't want much in the way of major changes. The roster was already very polished, if a bit oversaturated with pointy metal.

If they cut Duck Hunt but add a fire emblem character I will absolutely not buy this game

 

Now that I think about it though, decidueye would be an awesome pick. It’s the one design that looks good throughout the evolutionary line, and maybe Nintendo could get sum momentum off of it from Pokken

 

I’m just realizing now how much I want Bandana Dee and Sandbag as playable characters in this game

 

But yeah, I’m really hoping they don’t cut any of the roster. With Pokémon Trainer and Snake it had to happen, but again, this is Nintendo’s chance to really make this a good one

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The thing is that Lucina takes away from Marth's playstyle (tipper) without actively adding anything. She's almost objectively worse, aside from being very popular waifu bait.

She's actually preferred by some at high levels due to her consistency. ZeRo (literally the best pro Smash 4 player in the world before his retirement) played her over Marth, for example.

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She's actually preferred by some at high levels due to her consistency. ZeRo (literally the best pro Smash 4 player in the world before his retirement) played her over Marth, for example.

 

Good player ≠ good character

 

Marth is good for tipper, but you also have to bear in mind that Marth's attacks that are closer to the hilt do less knockback and therefore can be used for combos that Lucina can't pull off.

 

But I guess Lucina is fine for the earlier kills.

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Also just realized I forgot Wii Fit Trainer existed at all lol

Pretty sure you left of the 3 Miis as well.

 

But yea, Smash's roster can't really grow anymore. As I said in my post, fighting games have upper limits and 4 is already pushing it hard. Part of the reason it got away with it too was because of 7 characters being DLC. Things need to be cut.

 

And, I still strongly believe we need to temper excitement for 3rd party characters. Smash is first and foremost a celebration of Nintendo history so any 3rd party additions need to be very carefully done. I also believe the odds of 3rd parties getting 2 reps from the same franchise to be almost 0%.

 

As for some notes on new characters.

 

Zelda can easily see 1 of the 4 Champions from BotW make it in.

Xenoblade is likely to get the lead from 2.

K. Rool needs to happen. Though I'll take Dixie.

ARMs character as already said.

Pokemon should get something from Gen 7. My vote is for the owl.

 

F-Zero isn't getting a new character. While it certainly deserved it in the past, I don't think a franchise that hasn't seen a new game in over a decade really needs more than the lead.

 

 

Also also, we don't know if this is a new game or not. We have things suggesting it could be either. Personally I think the leans towards new though.

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I acknowledged the Miis when I brought up K. Rool: the Switch doesn't have Miis, so bringing them back in Sma5h when I'm just about the only person who ever played then frequently would just be wasting space on the roster, despite my avid like of the concept.

 

Also, I didn't add a Fire Emblem character, Isaac, I made a replacement. Big difference. Also Duck Hunt and all his mains can go die kthnxbai

 

I hadn't thought of an ARMs rep, but it makes perfect sense. Knowing Nintendo, they probably won't restrict themselves to just 1: Fire Emblem got a duo out of the gate, Kid Icarus went from 1 to 3 reps between games. I'm thinking either two or three, myself, but I don't know ARMs much beyond the ones popular on the Internet; I wouldn't be able to tell you which ones.

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Also Duck Hunt and all his mains can go die kthnxbai

 

NIWwR9B.jpg

 

Salt about a character ≠ that character deserves to be removed from the game

 

By that logic there would be no wave 2 or 3 DLC

 

Kid Icarus only has 3 representatives because of Uprising (which is an amazing game btw), but I do kind of wish Viridi was in smash. I can tell that the roster is limited though.

 

Honestly there's not really a valid reason to remove Duck Hunt, since the hardware isn't limited at all. Unless it is, in which case funk. I like Duck Hunt because it's one of the more creative characters and a really valuable addition that made Smash 4 different from the other installments. Besides, it's about the "all-stars," which not many minor Fire Emblem characters fit the bill for.

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It was (mostly) a joke. I'm not salty about the little dog-and-duck pair, I just find their playstyle anti-fun, which feels out of place given Sakurai's design philosophy. No fun to play as, no fun to play against (and not even in the DLC way where newer/less experienced players get bodied and have to accept it, making it an EZ win button around casual players and an uphill challenge worth taking for more competitive players), just an underwhelming addition to the roster that I don't believe anyone asked for. Might just be a personal thing, not entirely sure.

 

As for Fire Emblem, the only reason it exists in the West is Smash, so it makes sense that the tactical series would get heavy representation as a kind of thank you note. I'm just trying to cut out the redundant "language", as it were.

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Also apparently HAL Laboratory being in the copyright bit has been a thing for every game, which I find odd considering they had no involvement with 4. So that part doesn't necessarily mean anything, we still don't know who's developed this one, though if Sakurai is involved I'm assuming Sora Ltd. is as well.

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I acknowledged the Miis when I brought up K. Rool: the Switch doesn't have Miis, so bringing them back in Sma5h when I'm just about the only person who ever played then frequently would just be wasting space on the roster, despite my avid like of the concept.

 

I hadn't thought of an ARMs rep, but it makes perfect sense. Knowing Nintendo, they probably won't restrict themselves to just 1: Fire Emblem got a duo out of the gate, Kid Icarus went from 1 to 3 reps between games. I'm thinking either two or three, myself, but I don't know ARMs much beyond the ones popular on the Internet; I wouldn't be able to tell you which ones.

 

I missed it then. ARMs is too new an IP to get 2 reps imo. Again, the roster is already at the upper limits of what fighting games can really hold.

 

FE got 2 reps purely because they wanted Roy to promote the next game. Kid Icarus got 3 because Dark Pit is largely a clone and so it took less development time to add him vs. a full on character. Odds are he started out as an alt outfit like Alph.

 

Honestly there's not really a valid reason to remove Duck Hunt, since the hardware isn't limited at all. Unless it is, in which case funk. I like Duck Hunt because it's one of the more creative characters and a really valuable addition that made Smash 4 different from the other installments. Besides, it's about the "all-stars," which not many minor Fire Emblem characters fit the bill for.

The only reason to remove Duck Hunt is roster size. He is one of the least important character in the line up and if they need to make cuts (and they likely do) he would be near the top of the list.

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I could imagine ARMS getting two reps just because of how similar some characters are, notably Spring Man and Ribbon Girl who you could say are the main male and female reps of the game and would be the most likely Smash candidates. When it comes to just standard character stats, Spring Man is slightly larger while Ribbon Girl has slightly higher jumps, so with regards to physique and standard movement they're almost the same. When it comes to unique abilities, Spring Man has a reflect ability and gains permanent charge on his ARMS while below 20% health (could easily be translated to activate once he hits 80% or 100% damage or something since standard Smash rules don't have health), while Ribbon Girl has multiple jumps and a fast fall ability. Aside from that, each fighter can use the same ARMS once unlocked (though each character has different default ARMS so that could make for some cool variation for the two) and use the same game mechanics so they could have very similar movesets in Smash and be semi-clones of each other.

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It was (mostly) a joke. I'm not salty about the little dog-and-duck pair, I just find their playstyle anti-fun, which feels out of place given Sakurai's design philosophy. No fun to play as, no fun to play against (and not even in the DLC way where newer/less experienced players get bodied and have to accept it, making it an EZ win button around casual players and an uphill challenge worth taking for more competitive players), just an underwhelming addition to the roster that I don't believe anyone asked for. Might just be a personal thing, not entirely sure.

 

As for Fire Emblem, the only reason it exists in the West is Smash, so it makes sense that the tactical series would get heavy representation as a kind of thank you note. I'm just trying to cut out the redundant "language", as it were.

 

if you seriously think duck hunt is anti-fun, then I wonder how you feel about Bayonetta dealing 70%+ from one hit or Cloud always both being unapproachable and forcing you to approach. Obviously Bayonetta is sick af, but still has a playstyle that alienates a lot of what Smash Bros is about, especially in the fourth installment. In fact, Duck Hunt is one of the most appropriate characters for Smash 4, a game in which defensive options are extremely powerful (rapid shield regeneration, airdodges, rolls, spotdodges, etc).

Nobody asked for Game & Watch or Mii Fighters, and frankly, most people asked for a couple of other characters besides Corrin, so the logic of "what people want" is null and void. 

It's okay to have an opinion, but it seems like a very unfounded one based on your incapacity to deflect projectiles or run + shield.

I believe that Duck Hunt is loads of fun to play against because you constantly interact with his projectiles and he has a lot of funny tricks up his sleeve. In fact, the only reason Duck Hunt is considered bad is because he has bad matchups against high-tiers; all things considered, he has the best neutral game in the entire roster, with great aerials and projectiles. Perhaps he's the only defensive character on the roster aside from...Bowser, and maybe Sonic?

Anyway, I've had a few games against a Duck Hunt main, and it pretty much comes down to just knowing how to play and deflect projectiles, etc.

 

That's weird though. You could complain about Bayonetta combos, Cloud's above-average stats in everything (including recovery, while he has limit), Rosalina & Luma's early kill options and amazing frame data, Mario's down throw up tilt combos, Corrin or Marth's spacing, Ryu's anti-meta playstyle, Link/Toon Link's obnoxious playerbase....but Duck Hunt.

Anyway don't joke about removing a character without any explanation for why it's unfun other than "i dun like it." 

 

 

Also apparently HAL Laboratory being in the copyright bit has been a thing for every game, which I find odd considering they had no involvement with 4. So that part doesn't necessarily mean anything, we still don't know who's developed this one, though if Sakurai is involved I'm assuming Sora Ltd. is as well.

 

The lack of copyright displayed for 3rd parties has been used as evidence for this title being new rather than merely a port. I also wonder if there will be even more additions to the roster for this reason.

 

I also hope I don't have to spend more money on the DLC than the game itself

 

On the topic of Arms, we already have another heavily range-based character in Inkling (presumably), so adding an Arms character would likely shift the meta into one more about range and spacing than before. For this reason, shields need to be given serious consideration. 

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Well, this was cool news to stumble onto.

(missed the Direct)

 

I think this might be Smash 5. 4 years is pretty substantial time for a sequel, and I don't think Smash 4's physics and engine needed as much tweaking as Melee and Brawl did for their sequels.

Even if it ends up being 4 Deluxe, still pretty stoked about it. I'll buy it.

 

I'll echo Flame's sentiment on seeing Sceptile or Decidueye be a new Pokemon rep. I don't see why not increase it to 7.

I'm not gonna speculate more until we see some more footage, but this should be cool!

Crazy that it's being released this year. This is like anti-Kingdom Hearts 3.

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I think this might be Smash 5. 4 years is pretty substantial time for a sequel

 

This also reminds me that 4 years between Brawl and Smash 4 doesn't mean 4 years of development. Smash 4 development didn't really kick off until after Kid Icarus: Uprising was done, so it's closer to a 2-2.5 year development cycle. The main argument towards this being a port being that 4 years is not enough time for a new game has never made much sense.

 

I don't want to keep re-iterating the point that this is almost assuredly a new Smash game and not a port so I'll just leave it at that.

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I've heard some people are under the impression that the Switch doesn't have Miis. That would be incorrect, though they are tucked away quite a bit in the settings and therefore are unlikely to be used in games as much as they used to, if at all.

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Sorry, skimmed the thread.

 

I've heard some people are under the impression that the Switch doesn't have Miis. That would be incorrect, though they are tucked away quite a bit in the settings and therefore are unlikely to be used in games as much as they used to, if at all.

Interesting, I'll have to find that later.

I'd like keeping the Miis, I never use them seriously but they're fun for screwing around with.

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