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Russia, the U.S.A., and the White House Administration


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#21
cr47t

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we have evidence that russians did peek into a few files, but that means nothing unless you prove at least 1 of 3 things: 1) trump asked for, or told them to do so

 
He did. https://www.nytimes....ton-emails.html
 

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, referring to emails Mrs. Clinton had deleted from the private account she had used when she was secretary of state. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
 
As it turns out, that same day, the Russians — whether they had tuned in or not — made their first effort to break into the servers used by Mrs. Clinton’s personal office, according to a sweeping 29-page indictment unsealed Friday by the special counsel’s office that charged 12 Russians with election hacking.

 

(Emphasis added)

 

We don't know for sure if the Russians were responding in response to Trump's request. But we do know it's in the realm of possibility, and I think that's what vla1ne was at (if I read his post correctly.)


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#22
Melkor

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I disagree with trump. It's not collusion. It seems sleazy, but that's poltics

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#23
Phantom Roxas

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He did. https://www.nytimes....ton-emails.html
 
 
We don't know for sure if the Russians were responding in response to Trump's request. But we do know it's in the realm of possibility, and I think that's what vla1ne was at (if I read his post correctly.)

 
I want to build on your point and rephrase this in a way that will hopefully help people to understand what you're saying better.
 
Whether or not the Russians were specifically answering Trump's request, he still made that request regardless. For them to act on the same day and do exactly as he had asked - I would dare to speculate that he publicly made the request because he knew they were going to be doing this regardless - does lend more evidence that he was guilty.


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#24
vla1ne

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He did. https://www.nytimes....ton-emails.html
 

 

We don't know for sure if the Russians were responding in response to Trump's request. But we do know it's in the realm of possibility, and I think that's what vla1ne was at (if I read his post correctly.)

well that proves he asked for it, but in such a manner, it does not hold enough weight to actually be useful in the current case. it does satisfy the condition, but It's about on the level of making an offhand statement, and finding out somebody actually acted on it. it's about on the level of hillary and obama claiming that our allies would never support trump, and then hearing a statement from our allies soon after, containing veiled threats of abandoning USA if trump wins the election.

 

IMO, the collusion accusations are an even weaker argument for corruption in comparison to to what it actually revealed. Russia did a number on the Clinton campaign, but it was nothing more than pinpointed intelligence attacks, which were arguably coming regardless of trumps statement, though likely sped up because of them, simply out of hatred of the opposing candidate in question.

 

 

 
I want to build on your point and rephrase this in a way that will hopefully help people to understand what you're saying better.
 
Whether or not the Russians were specifically answering Trump's request, he still made that request regardless. For them to act on the same day and do exactly as he had asked - I would dare to speculate that he publicly made the request because he knew they were going to be doing this regardless - does lend more evidence that he was guilty.

 

that is literal conspiracy building.


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#25
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that is literal conspiracy building.

 

So was pizzagate.  But one of these is more plausible than the other.


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#26
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So was pizzagate.  But one of these is more plausible than the other.


Meanwhile we found out today Mr. Ohr, a high ranking Obama DoJ official worked with his wife (who worked for Hillary's) to facilitate a spy buying Kremlin dirt on Trump. There was Russian collusion, just not by Trump.

I don't fault them though. In my eyes the democrats are the death of America, to some liberals the GOP rings the same. It really is a war for America's soul and anything should be fair game. I'd do the same in their position
There's a big pedophilia problem in Hollywood as we've found out recently. And human trafficking is a silent but present plague in America. Pizzagate was silly, but some of the things it suggested ended up true

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#27
Phantom Roxas

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well that proves he asked for it, but in such a manner, it does not hold enough weight to actually be useful in the current case. it does satisfy the condition, but It's about on the level of making an offhand statement, and finding out somebody actually acted on it. it's about on the level of hillary and obama claiming that our allies would never support trump, and then hearing a statement from our allies soon after, containing veiled threats of abandoning USA if trump wins the election.

 

IMO, the collusion accusations are an even weaker argument for corruption in comparison to to what it actually revealed. Russia did a number on the Clinton campaign, but it was nothing more than pinpointed intelligence attacks, which were arguably coming regardless of trumps statement, though likely sped up because of them, simply out of hatred of the opposing candidate in question.

 

 

 

that is literal conspiracy building.

 

You just said that it proves he asked for it. While it may not be useful in the current case by itself, it establishes a foundation for the case to investigate, and contributes to a much larger pattern. You said it would mean nothing unless there was proof that he had asked for it, and the burden of proof has been met. It is disingenuous to move the goalposts once the proof that you explicitly requested is provided. I'm hardly conspiracy building when this investigation is consistently finding evidence suggesting that there was in fact collusion.

 

When the case is leading to indictment after indictment, with Rick Gates testifying against Paul Manafort, and both of them have ties to Trump, who is consistently attacking Mueller, with the GOP failing to impeach Rod Rosenstein, to the point where there are legitimate concerns for obstruction of justice, especially with Devin Nunes making a complete idiot of himself with his poor attempts to rush the investigation to a close or discredit sources - especially because he does not actually read any of the documents he tries to retaliate against - I would think that there's a sufficient case here.


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#28
vla1ne

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it's not moving the goalposts. i granted that it was exactly what i asked for. but the exact scenario said evidence is given, gives nothing to any form of case. it would be like you saying winter should be banned, and winter getting banned the same day. mere coincidence. unless for whatever reason, coincidence is now enough evidence to jail people? you have meetings, but not collusion. if there was more than the utmost barebones evidence, this would already be over, and you know that. as for it being usable as evidence, the defense is simple: why would Russia need a signal? if they were colluding by that point, then why would they pick the day he said it, to start instead of literally any other day? is that how they make alibis now? by taking refuge in audacity?

 

 

yep, and none of those indictments are actually for collusion, most of them are counts of fraud. false bank accounts, and tax evasion are the word of the day for those accusations. none of the actual american relations involve trump either. the russians who are currently under the scope have already been stated to have not influenced a thing about the elecions (meaning they had nothing to do with hillary's loss at the polls) one of them are related to false ID's, (somehow only bad when it's not from mexico). one was an obstruction of justice charge, with does nothing for the actual case. as or the impeachment case, it's an attempt to make the system easier to rig for impeachment. not a good idea by any means, because it's a wweapon that can be used by both sides. holding it to proper rigidity is absolutely necessary, and the republican party would be foolish to try and push through with the plan. as for the claims that trump is guilty of obstruction of justice, trump is making tweets about his case. if that counts as obstruction of justice, then everybody who ever bitched about investigations into them on their media feed would be guilty. and no, presidential status does not change this. we all know trump wants him to quit wasting our time, trump tweeting about it applies no pressure beyond that of public annoyance, and if that's enough to end the case, then i'd say they never had anything to begin with.

 

which brings us back to the start. they still have 0 solid collusion evidence. they have fake bank accounts and money laundering, and if that's evidence of collusion with a country (corruption it is unquestionably, collusion it is not by any means) then you could spear almost  the entirety of congress with such a long reaching legal weapon. collusion though? none yet. and thanks to the russian leaks, we all now know that if the FBI had that evidence, they'd be using it as soon as possible. they don't, they've been trying to find it for two years, and all they've got to show for it is that people in politics are trying to hide their money from tax collectors. and that's been known since forever.


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#29
Phantom Roxas

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https://www.rawstory...tion-goes-away/

 

Devin Nunes has revealed that he's trying to impede the investigation just to maintain the Republican majority. He said it would be criminal if an American citizen got secrets from a foreign government. Remember, Trump said that his son met with the Russians for the express purpose of receiving secrets from a foreign government.

 

He also stated that there are still plans to impeach Rosenstein to stop the investigation.

 

You can agree or disagree on the merits of the investigation in and of themselves, but Devin Nunes is helping to obstruct justice, so regardless of what the investigation turns up, Nunes has now put himself even more at risk.


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#30
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https://twitter.com/...086602028384256

 

Michael Cohen's lawyer confirms Cohen knows information that would be of interest to the special counsel, and whether or not Trump knew ahead of time about the hacking, and even cheered it on.

 

That's a pretty specific thing to tease that Cohen may know about.


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#31
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Incoming pardons boys.

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#32
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https://www.npr.org/...president-trump
 
The same lawyer shut that possibility down.

"[Cohen] has flatly authorized me to say under no circumstances would he accept a pardon from Mr. Trump, who uses the pardon power in a way that no president in American history has ever used a pardon — to relieve people of guilt who committed crimes, who are political cronies of his."


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#33
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https://www.washingt...m=.1567d58d5560

 

Former top White House official K.T. MacFarland has revised her statement after it was contradicted by Michael Flynn's guilty plea. She says that Flynn may have discussed sanctions targeting the Russian government.

 

Interesting how more people are flipping on this.


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#34
Phantom Roxas

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https://www.fresnobe...e219558065.html

 

A member of the House Intelligence Committee has confirmed that despite multiple attempts to release transcripts from their interviews regarding Robert Mueller's Russia probe, Devin Nunes opposes any and all efforts to do so. Once again, Devin Nunes continues to enable obstruction of justice.


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