TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 There are cards that clearly belong to an archetype in all but in the name. Like "Fiendish Rhino Warrior" and "Tour Guide From the Underworld" are BA cards, "Heavymetalfoes Electrumite" is a Pendulum Magician card, and "Galaxy Soldier" is a Cydras card (yes some of them can be used in other archetypes than the ones listed here but you get the idea) So whats the point of doing this for Shaddolls?Make it easier to get the links out (the Subterror and Shaddoll ones) since Shaddolls are pretty bad at swarming, especially the Flip component of the deckTo give them a viable Water and Fire target, for something as generic as entire attributes there are very few targets that actually work with the deck for these attribute (No helping the WIND fusion though)It's really frickin' difficult to make a Shaddoll monster that doesn't screw up the lore Drake of the Crater FIRE | Level 2 ✪✪ | Dragon/Flip/Effect | 200/1400FLIP: You can add 1 "Polymerization" Spell Card or "Fusion" Spell Card from your Deck to your hand.If this card is in your GY: You can Special Summon this card by changing 1 face-down Defense Position monster you control to face-up Defense Position.You can only use each effect of "Drake of the Crater" Once per turn. [spoiler=Notes]Turns Dragon Shrine into a better Foolish giving more ways to set up plays with the Flip links. Clearly, the actual Flip effect is redundant but does its job making this a Flip monster Steampunk Hydraulics Water | Level 3 ✪✪✪| Pyro/Flip/Effect | 900/1900FLIP: You can target 1 Flip monster in your GY; Apply that target's Flip effect.Quick Effect: You can Target 2 Flip monsters with different names in your GY; Shuffle them into your Deck, and if you do, Special Summon this card (from your hand or GY) in face-up or face-down Defense position.You can only use each effect of "Steampunk Hydraulics " Once per turn. [spoiler=Notes]Following the theme of "being part of the archetype but not really", the destruction trigger the Shaddolls GY effect but makes it pretty useless for Subterror and Krawlers as they don't benefit from this kind of effect. I also wouldn't run this in Subterror and Krawlers just for the second effect since they have better ways of summoning monsters. Twilight AssailantLIGHT | LINK-3 | Spellcaster/Link/Effect | 2200UR, DL, DR2+ monsters, including at least 1 Flip monsterIf this card is Link Summoned: You can discard 1 Flip monster, and if you do, destroy 1 card your opponent controls.Once per turn (Quick Effect): You can change 1 face-down Defense position this card points to to face-up Defense position.If this card is in your GY: You can target 1 Flip monster in your GY; Shuffle this card into the Extra Deck and add that target to your hand. [spoiler=Notes]Yes, this is a Retrain of Night Assailant. I Made it since it would be nice to have a monster to link climb into since Lil' construct can summon herself from the GY every turn so having something bigger to go into would certainly help out. NIght Assailant has always been on my radar for Shaddolls since it has a decent Flip effect and an effect that makes sense for cards like Twin Twisters but was never quite good enough :( [spoiler=Sample of Drake's interaction with Dragon Shrine]Have Dragon Shrine> Activate Dragon Shrine send Drake of the Crater > Activate Drake of the Crater send Shaddoll Hedgehog, add Shaddoll Falco> Set Shaddoll Falco> Activate Drake of the Crater, flip Shaddoll Falco and summon Drake of the Crater > Activate Shaddoll Falco, Summon Shaddoll Hedgehog Then you can Link into Link Construct and make Winda with the Hedgehog on the field, or more likely incorporate some more cards into the combo that takes into account what else you have and what's on your opponent field (for stuff like Dragon's GY effect, Squamata's Flip effect, and Shaddoll Fusion's bonus Effect) Edit: Twilight Assailant no longer has a banish fusion materials from the GY effect EDIT: Drake of the Crater: Merge the second and third effects into 1, Flip effect is now relevantSteampunk Hydraulics: the Flip effect is no longer a guaranteed +1Twilight Assailant: Now doesn't target and can destroy any card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 They do a little too much, to the point of looking greedy. For example, the Flip effect of Drake is just an extra to justify the Flip subtype, and the 2nd effect of Steampunk is Quick Effect just for the sake of it, apparently. Not too keen into the effect either because it's a free +1 as long as you continue getting Flips in the GY. Maybe it would be better if it banished itself when it leaves the field after being Summoned with that effect. And Assailant is too blatantly in-our-face convenient for Shaddolls.The send effect of Drake is a bit too rewarding, too. In a vacuum it's a +0 sure, but with Shaddolls in mind, it's a +1.IMO you should cut down on the things they can do, and be more generic or subtle on this "indirect support for Shaddolls "approach. By the way, when I read the opening thread I was expecting a FIRE & WATER that floated when sent to the GY by a card effect, and yet, only Drake does, and exclusively when sent from the Deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 They do a little too much, to the point of looking greedy. For example, the Flip effect of Drake is just an extra to justify the Flip subtype, and the 2nd effect of Steampunk is Quick Effect just for the sake of it, apparently. Not too keen into the effect either because it's a free +1 as long as you continue getting Flips in the GY. Maybe it would be better if it banished itself when it leaves the field after being Summoned with that effect. And Assailant is too blatantly in-our-face convenient for Shaddolls.The send effect of Drake is a bit too rewarding, too. In a vacuum it's a +0 sure, but with Shaddolls in mind, it's a +1.IMO you should cut down on the things they can do, and be more generic or subtle on this "indirect support for Shaddolls "approach. I did say the Flip effect was just there to make it a Flip monster. I was trying to figure out to make it possible for Shaddolls to get 2 Flip monsters on the field for the Links but there just wasn't a nice way to do it unless this card was also a Flip. Not the best solution I'll admit but far from the worse possible. The second effect of Steampunk is there for a similar reason to Snow: gives you a monster on the field to stop you being OTKed. You can also summon it during your opponent's end phase and flip it next turn. It's HOPT so I don't feel the need to make it banish itself when it leaves the field, and as good as Shaddolls are at getting monsters into the GY it's still setup you have to work with. Fair enough about Assailant, tying Flips and Fusions together is unique to Shaddolls. Changed it to an End Phase flipping effect. Even if the send effect of Drake is a +1 that's not a bad thing, A ton of cards are +1s or more now like all the True Draco Spell/Traps, Electrumite, Darkwyrm, and Destrudo. If all the effects I had here were +0 they would likely be pretty bad as a whole. And I never had the intention of being "subtle about this being support for Shaddolls", this is support for Shaddolls By the way, when I read the opening thread I was expecting a FIRE & WATER that floated when sent to the GY by a card effect, and yet, only Drake does, and exclusively when sent from the Deck.I never intended for them to be a ripoff of the Shaddolls, what more GY effects does the archetype even need? They have monster searching, MST, foolish, summon itself and even a straight Draw GY effect. Any other useful GY effect is already represented in some way on one of the monster's Flip effects so wouldn't make much sense to do that thematically. They need more Spamming not Floating. It's not like Tour Guide summons herself and floats, or Galaxy Soldier is treated as a Cydra on the field and GY Thanks for your review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 I never intended for them to be a ripoff of the Shaddolls, what more GY effects does the archetype even need? They have monster searching, MST, foolish, summon itself and even a straight Draw GY effect. Any other useful GY effect is already represented in some way on one of the monster's Flip effects so wouldn't make much sense to do that thematically. They need more Spamming not Floating. It's not like Tour Guide summons herself and floats, or Galaxy Soldier is treated as a Cydra on the field and GY I didn't mean them as Shaddoll rip-offs, but more like floaty FIRE & WATER that can also be played in other decks. Think of Trick Clown, for example. I could tell they weren't subtle support, but still, it feels too obvious for my tastes. That's a personal thing, though. Then again, Fiendish Rhino is just as obvious. But Galaxy Soldier does manage to be subtle, due to its semi-generic-ish effects. I agree that the +1 is not that bad. By the way, just to be fair with something you stated before, BAs were released much later than TGU, so I would say BAs were designed for TGU, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 I didn't mean them as Shaddoll rip-offs, but more like floaty FIRE & WATER that can also be played in other decks. Think of Trick Clown, for example. I could tell they weren't subtle support, but still, it feels too obvious for my tastes. That's a personal thing, though. Then again, Fiendish Rhino is just as obvious. But Galaxy Soldier does manage to be subtle, due to its semi-generic-ish effects. I agree that the +1 is not that bad. By the way, just to be fair with something you stated before, BAs were released much later than TGU, so I would say BAs were designed for TGU, not the other way around.Well Well, you can jam these into Subterrors and Krawlers if you want. I don't really want to remove the level cap from Steampunk in case a level 12 monster with an effect worthy of its level comes out. Drake is plenty generic being able to trigger Flips effects T1 in any deck. Hydraulics could only be more generic if it shuffled back any monsters which I think is a bit much. If you look at these cards in a vacuum they seem fairly generic for any Flip archetype, there just isn't a lot of them out there. Should I try to support Worms or something with these cards? Didn't know that Tour guide was released much earlier, always thought they were released "around the same time". It's still basically a BA card though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 Bump To be honest I'd like 1 more review but I guess I'll leave it at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 Drake is obviously designed with Shaddolls in mind, and while I can understand the LP gain just being there to justify it being a Flip monster, I would prefer it if it was at least somewhat encouraged. Like SSing itself from the hand in face-down Defense Position, forcing you actually make use of it. It's not like it won't be able to be Linked with or Fusioned with. It's almost purely better than Squamata, but it's not really that easy to trigger, relying on external techs to be playable. I would say that was bad design, but your SS effect renders itself useful if you do happen to open it. Hydraulics is the more subtle one of the trio, actually working with most flip Decks while being better with Shaddolls. I know you said you aren't trying to be subtle, but it is nicer to see a card that at least tries to be more generic. As with the above, why Summon in face-up Defense Position? If you're encouraging FLIP Support it might be just the nerf Hydraulics needs not to be such a plus. Assailant is really underwhelming. The Flip face-up effect isn't great for Falco, as you probably Summoned it this turn, and that's the way you're going to be Summoning most of your other Shaddolls, rather than just setting them. For most FLIP decks, save for Shaddolls, the flipping is for disruption, and on the off-chance you Set a monster this turn that plusses instead of disrupting, you still have to wait a turn to use it. Not to mention it's too slow and easy to play around. OPT destruction for a Link 3 with such meh stats is alright, but you could almost certainly get away with targeting a card instead of a monster. The GY effect is the only good thing about it (might be good to change the shuffle to simply "return to the ed" to avoid confusion) but even so I'll be saving my flips for both of the other two monsters. I like your first two cards, but the Link isn't very useful at the moment. Niche use, perhaps at one, but it doesn't really do anything that Shaddolls, or any other FLIP decks, can't do themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSaiyan Posted April 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Drake is obviously designed with Shaddolls in mind, and while I can understand the LP gain just being there to justify it being a Flip monster, I would prefer it if it was at least somewhat encouraged. Like SSing itself from the hand in face-down Defense Position, forcing you actually make use of it. It's not like it won't be able to be Linked with or Fusioned with. It's almost purely better than Squamata, but it's not really that easy to trigger, relying on external techs to be playable. I would say that was bad design, but your SS effect renders itself useful if you do happen to open it. Hydraulics is the more subtle one of the trio, actually working with most flip Decks while being better with Shaddolls. I know you said you aren't trying to be subtle, but it is nicer to see a card that at least tries to be more generic. As with the above, why Summon in face-up Defense Position? If you're encouraging FLIP Support it might be just the nerf Hydraulics needs not to be such a plus. Assailant is really underwhelming. The Flip face-up effect isn't great for Falco, as you probably Summoned it this turn, and that's the way you're going to be Summoning most of your other Shaddolls, rather than just setting them. For most FLIP decks, save for Shaddolls, the flipping is for disruption, and on the off-chance you Set a monster this turn that plusses instead of disrupting, you still have to wait a turn to use it. Not to mention it's too slow and easy to play around. OPT destruction for a Link 3 with such meh stats is alright, but you could almost certainly get away with targeting a card instead of a monster. The GY effect is the only good thing about it (might be good to change the shuffle to simply "return to the ed" to avoid confusion) but even so I'll be saving my flips for both of the other two monsters. I like your first two cards, but the Link isn't very useful at the moment. Niche use, perhaps at one, but it doesn't really do anything that Shaddolls, or any other FLIP decks, can't do themselves. Since this is the second time I've gotten a complaint about the Flip effect I'll make it relevant and I merged the last 2 effect into one to avoid having too many good effects on one card. Nothing really came to mind as a good Flip effect, removal, adding a Flip monster, summoning from hand or GY, they all have better cards that do those so I'll just make it a Fusion searcher instead. The cards need to be Face-up to Link with, that's why they can summon in Face-up position. There are planty of good Flip effect in Shaddolls that more good Flip effect wouldn't help them out at all. Changed "Steampunk Hydraulics" Flip effect so it's not always such a plus. It now depends on what in your GY. Changed Assailant flipping effect to a Quick effect so you can use it on your opponent turn for disruption. Don't like having 2 OPT effect on the same card so the first effect now triggers on summon instead. Let me know if that fixes the issues :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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