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YCM is dead, how can we fix this?


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#1
SK79LinkXyz

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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Maker Forum is dead, how can we fix this enough to bring new people in and get the CAC section off life support? I know there's other parts on this Forum but the Yu-Gi-Oh/Yu-Gi-Oh Card Maker is without question the bread and butter yet it has let all of down. How can we improve things?

1) We need new blood, part of the old guard is active besides a few noobs, this is a problem.

02) YCM got a neo version but we have to do something to let people know we have it now.

What you think we need to fix this Forum?
"behold I shall be a blight upon this forum

and everything I touch shall wither and die."

#2
Nathanael D. Striker

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Part of the issue, in terms of cardmaking, is all the shit that needs to be considered when designing a card. During the time I was starting out, it was Fusions and Synchros in the Extra Deck. Less stuff to worry about made (Extra Deck and cards in general) made it easier to avoid the pitfalls associated with not knowing something existed. Now we have a larger pool for the Extra Deck and more cards in general, there is a lot more to sort through and consider, which can easily lead to an unintentionally OP'd card.

Now, I expect people to say "cardmakers should duel and know the meta", but some cardmakers just don't use the time to duel. Hell, I don't have the time to only think about cardmaking except during breaks from School. That's similar for a lot of YCMers here due to the aging population here.

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#3
mido9

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There's nothing wrong with YCM just being a clique of the same ~30 active people or such.

 

Also, nobody wants to be a masochist and put their cards on CAC to see their impact on the meta and changes while accounting for a million cards and etc after registering and reading the rules and so on unless they're very very determined, they just want to make fancy tie-ins or spinoffs for themselves or their friends.




 

 

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#4
All Beef Cow

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We destroy Reddit and maybe also Discord.

 

That's like, the best way of getting more activity. Though that's totally unrealistic. The best realistic way we can improve activity is to get the word out that our cardmaker is fixed. The problem is, we took too long. YCMaker was slow to add Xyzs, and we never got Pendulums and Links until now. We didn't add Pendulums to the cardmaker until the 2018. People have long since given up on us and have turned to other, better places to make cards. Letting people elsewhere on the internet know our cardmaker is fixed will improve activity somewhat, and it's the best we can do, but do not think this is a miracle fix-all for activity. This place will never return to the activity of those years we keep citing for activity, 2011 or something. We took too long, and also forums are old hat nowadays.


Actually, no, u.


#5
Flash Flyer - Sakura

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I'd like to remind everyone that Free Card Design does exist as a section, where you don't have to care about the metagame and/or any of the design standards you are generally held to in Advanced and Casual. That's pretty much why it exists; you guys wanted a section where members can be free to post whatever they want, card-wise; you got it. (And yes, it does have post count and points enabled). 
 
Casual is also free design in a way, but you do have to abide by the 5000 ATK/DEF thing, not make it blatantly OP'd that it's obvious and yeah, just be open to changes.
 
====
Like Striker and mido mentioned, we have a lot of cards (I think it's around 6 to 7 thousand, also taking into account the "pack fillers" and old cards no one uses anymore) that need to be considered in terms of design and yes, you cannot expect all members to be privy to what goes on competitively (or if they do, not to the same degree).
 
Be honest, how many of you were adept at the metagame when you first joined this site?
 
Perhaps the decline is due to Casual being held to roughly the same standards of reviewing as Advanced for three years (in which members were mandated to talk about design and all) and the posting style transferred over. Casual had its requirements dropped a bit, but there are still some standards (which are pretty basic). 
 
=====
 


 
Now then, about YCM in general. 
 

1) We need new blood, part of the old guard is active besides a few noobs, this is a problem.

2) YCM got a neo version but we have to do something to let people know we have it now.

 
1. Part of our inability to retain new members actively (or even some of the veteran users) does lie in how we interact with each other (among ourselves / new members) and the atmosphere that is given off in terms of what we post on this site. Whether it's being amicable to members new to specific sections or even YCM in general, we need to make people feel welcome here. 
 
Yeah, we've had a few veterans leave because of a handful who made the site unpleasant to be on at times, and they were not handled properly (either promptly and/or given sufficient punishments). Granted, some of those members did retaliate on their own terms and made the situation worse for the staff to handle.

 
We're all not gonna be here forever as we have lives outside this site like working, college and so forth (that, and our interest in this site may fade for various reasons). However, if we're going to attract new members who actually stick around longer than a few days, YCM as a whole has to change the way it acts towards each other and new members. 
 
====
 
Another part of it is based on how YCM (and forums in general) function when compared to stuff like Discord [easier to post stuff and usually less standards]. As is the case for the Duel Portal section, nearly all of the vets have moved to their own server (which is quite active, mind you) for this reason. Also issue of not much to do here. 
 
IIRC, some of you even mentioned this in passing within the status bar. 
 
====
 
There isn't anything wrong with having the same people, though would be nice to have new members who actually post on the site and not stick to only the cardmaker (though I suspect even few want to come here because our cardmaker is shit right now).

 

As much as I'd like for pre-2012 activity levels on YCM (this was before the apparent server crash or something; idk because I left at the end of 2011), it's not going to happen.
 
 
2. While Tormey hasn't updated the link to the "permanent" one, there is a button at the top that links to it. Whether or not members who aren't aware of the support thread will actually click it remains to be seen, though it's also a redirect link on the forum index (beneath this section). So yeah, you guys know it's there and can access it.  

 

But yeah, YCMaker took until 2013 to add Xyz Monsters; and he still hasn't added Pendulums or Links to the cardmaker (or even fixed any of the bugs that are still present). It took until late 2017-2018 to get one with Links (granted, you guys do have TCGEditor, but even that stopped being updated lately). 
 

It's not that the staff doesn't want to fix it, but rather it's on our nonexistent admin to do it without screwing things over.

 

Yeah, even the DP guys said that their Photoshop templates or Paint.NET stuff yields better quality than the new cardmaker, which is true in a way, but we have to make do with whatever we have.

 

I do need to update that Link template for GIMP and release the new version for public use though [still on S9, which the Neo New uses], but will be done later.

 


 
I have some ideas to revitalize CC (some that are borrowed from AGM and the DP server), but a lot of them are community dependent. Things that come to mind are:

  • Possible community archetype.
  • "Card of the Period" (which is probably every 2 weeks or something, because my coursework/life will not permit me to do it every week [also the activity in the area isn't exactly high enough to garner sufficient postings])
  • CC tournaments actually being a consistent thing (or I can try doing more of those multi-stage tournaments like in October with the ZPD Field Exam)

 

 

Mind you, it took over an hour to write this, but yeah. 


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#6
宇佐見 蓮子@C94

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internet forums as a whole is slowly dying off, not really much of a surprise when most of the discussion now takes place in reddit and discord servers.

 

if you wanna inject new activity you need to remove both of those from existence. otherwise there's not really much that can be done.


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#7
(Mizzet)

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People keep freaking out over lack of activity, but it's not like the site is going to fade away, and quite honestly, more activity isn't going to make it much better by other metrics.

If you have these issues, do something about it yourself. I'm tired of people jumping up saying "hey the forum is dying someone fix it". People are doing their part. Actually do something to fix this non-existent conflict, rather than expect everyone else to jump to do it for you.
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#8
God Emperor Cow

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...I like the forum's level of activity though.

Also the cardmaker problem is getting better isn't it?

The "issue" is that people tend to just want to make the cards and leave. Honestly this forum is kind of a side thing to the card maker itself.


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#9
Melkor

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Now might be a good time to do my community wide DM YGO subbed watch. 

 

Put the Y back in YCM


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#10
Catterjune

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Either: a) Have clever, funny, insightful content like Reddit

or


b) Create a community


Option A is pretty much out of the way since you fucksticks have no original thoughts and just spurt out memes.

Why not create an official lolYCM Discord?

#11
Dova

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Option A is pretty much out of the way since you fucksticks have no original thoughts and just spurt out memes.

Why not create an official lolYCM Discord?

 

Because we did.

 

And it went really well.



#12
Ninjask Is Bae

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As a not so active member and a bit of the outsides of the forum, I think I might actually have a bit of a unique insight into this.

 

I think there are multiple issues that are intertwined with each other that drive away newer members. And some of these are literally unfixable. (namely 1 and 3)

 

1. Lack of interaction with newer members

Alright, I totally understand this one, and I am admitadly part of the problem. But you just have to look through Casual- and Advanced card design to see the huge ammount of actual quality posts that go without any feedback. This is a HUGE turn-off for most newer posters as they are on the forum for interaction in the first place. Though I do try my best to comment on topics with 0 comments.

 

2. Lack of a drive towards big projects like AGM

If 1 wasn't a problem then this wouldn't be a problem either, but with the unfixability of problem 1 a nice alternative would be to drive everyone into the Clubs & Organizations forum to make cards together, as people will be forced to give attention to other people's work. Maybe this would ruin that part of the forum though. Also, I just realised that I have never made a club myself, so can I really whine about this? A good alternative to this would also be to have a specific sub-forum to make card making projects that are too big for one person and have it be in the "Card Maker" part of the site.

 

3. Difficult to get into "the circle"

When you get on this site you realise all the big posters know each other and it's pretty difficult to get in on a community like that. That's discouraging, but unfixable.

 

Edit: Also, discord is not the answer to all our problems, that place is a hellhole.


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#13
Melkor

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3. Difficult to get into "the circle"

When you get on this site you realise all the big posters know each other and it's pretty difficult to get in on a community like that. That's discouraging, but unfixable.

 

Edit: Also, discord is not the answer to all our problems, that place is a hellhole.

A good portion of us also don't get along, so its not quite as cohesive as you might think

 

You're damn right, but good luck getting anyone else to accept that around here


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#14
Dova

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1. Lack of interaction with newer members

Alright, I totally understand this one, and I am admitadly part of the problem. But you just have to look through Casual- and Advanced card design to see the huge ammount of actual quality posts that go without any feedback. This is a HUGE turn-off for most newer posters as they are on the forum for interaction in the first place. Though I do try my best to comment on topics with 0 comments.

 

While I agree with your other two points completely, you have to remember that new members aren't the only ones who are subject to a lack of reviews. Take a look at Tinkerer's, Draconus', or even some of my sets; they quite often don't get reviews for days, even weeks, if at all.

 

However, we do need to make more an effort with newer members, as they while they aren't the only ones subject to this, they don't have the benefit of friends on the site to ask for reviews.


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#15
Icy

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Shouldn't take friends. I think the standard are inherently both too high and way too in your face. Even on Realistic Card's (using that name for the sake of historical stuff) toughest days, people were let to adhere to their own standards without an air of pressure despite the Advanced Clause and how strict I was. Even with Ragnarok gone it never slowed down too much, and shouldn't. People LIKE sharing ideas and taking time.


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#16
Nathanael D. Striker

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Shouldn't take friends. I think the standard are inherently both too high and way too in your face. Even on Realistic Card's (using that name for the sake of historical stuff) toughest days, people were let to adhere to their own standards without an air of pressure despite the Advanced Clause and how strict I was. Even with Ragnarok gone it never slowed down too much, and shouldn't. People LIKE sharing ideas and taking time.


Well, the current RC standards didn't come out of thin air: they are the result of the progression of standards starting from the initial Advanced Clause and to the standards set during Black's and Koko's first modship to now. If blame for too high of standards needs to be done, then everyone should share that blame as we all allowed those standards to progress to where they currently are.

Probably too much rambling, but the point is Sakura isn't fully to blame for the current standards due to precedence.

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#17
Icy

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Well, the current RC standards didn't come out of thin air: they are the result of the progression of standards starting from the initial Advanced Clause and to the standards set during Black's and Koko's first modship to now. If blame for too high of standards needs to be done, then everyone should share that blame as we all allowed those standards to progress to where they currently are.

Probably too much rambling, but the point is Sakura isn't fully to blame for the current standards due to precedence.

 

Never implied they were solely to this point, if it came off that way my sincerest apologies, Sakura.


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#18
Nathanael D. Striker

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Never implied they were solely to this point, if it came off that way my sincerest apologies, Sakura.


I tried to make that post in general, but I quoted you for continuity.

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#19
ABC Gun

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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Maker Forum is dead, how can we fix this enough to bring new people in and get the CAC section off life support? I know there's other parts on this Forum but the Yu-Gi-Oh/Yu-Gi-Oh Card Maker is without question the bread and butter yet it has let all of down. How can we improve things?

1) We need new blood, part of the old guard is active besides a few noobs, this is a problem.

02) YCM got a neo version but we have to do something to let people know we have it now.

What you think we need to fix this Forum?

 

As far as the Neo Version is concerned I tried it a few times but I can never figure out how to actually get image codes unlike the older cardmaker, until that is fixed and until it replaces the old cardmaker what could be done is lots of promotion through other social media (Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc.). That's all I can say for now


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#20
Dova

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As far as the Neo Version is concerned I tried it a few times but I can never figure out how to actually get image codes unlike the older cardmaker, until that is fixed and until it replaces the old cardmaker what could be done is lots of promotion through other social media (Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc.). That's all I can say for now

 

It doesn't upload images to another hosting site; you have to download the image and upload it to a hosting site yourself.






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