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Super YCM Discord 2


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#21
Darkrai

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I mean I brought up an actual statistical test to prove causation. The metric we were using to measure activity was posts, which were roughly similar between Debates and TCG. Whether one person was the only poster or not isn't really the debate here. 

 

Based on that, a diff and diff operator shows that discord had a casual effect in removing TCG's activity. I'm actually objectively right here. Now it's not the full picture. Your question about #posters matters. In debates case, it was a hostile place and only the vets posted regularly. Giga's pt about WHY discord killed TCG is also important to assess. But it's undeniable that Discord had a negative impact on TCG

 

There's no conspiracy, I'm just noting that certain people are so set on their views that they're too impatient to wait for a rebuttal. It's poor argument spectating procedure 


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#22
God Emperor Cow

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I mean I brought up an actual statistical test to prove causation. The metric we were using to measure activity was posts, which were roughly similar between Debates and TCG. Whether one person was the only poster or not isn't really the debate here. 

 

Based on that, a diff and diff operator shows that discord had a casual effect in removing TCG's activity. I'm actually objectively right here. Now it's not the full picture. Your question about #posters matters. In debates case, it was a hostile place and only the vets posted regularly. Giga's pt about WHY discord killed TCG is also important to assess. But it's undeniable that Discord had a negative impact on TCG

 

There's no conspiracy, I'm just noting that certain people are so set on their views that they're too impatient to wait for a rebuttal. It's poor argument spectating procedure 

The amount of posters is very important when the matter at hand is activity though.

And idk, my question is why would an official YCM discord change anything when the people who would post on discord instead of YCM could already post on discord without the official one.


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#23
Nathanael D. Striker

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If we are going talking about Statistics here, where those posts come from does matter as it could be a necessary control factor that needs to be considered. From what you described, you didn't care whether one person made those posts or a group, and that would be something I'd care about when conducting my analysis as it is a key difference between the two groups that I'd want to control for.

 

Sorry for the rushed explanation, but this damn heat has been getting to me today, and I'm not too happy about it.


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#24
Darkrai

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If one person makes 100 valid posts in a section. Is it not active Striker/cow?
Going for the extreme example

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#25
Flash Flyer - Sakura

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If one person makes 100 valid posts in a section. Is it not active Striker/cow?
Going for the extreme example

 

It depends on how short/long of a time span they make those posts, and however many people replicate it. If done within a moderate timeframe within section guidelines and whatnot, then sure, you may consider it active. If done over a very long period of time where there is no activity for a great number of days (see Showcase for example), then not really. 

 

Building on Cow's point about members already use Discord for talking with a select group elsewhere even without the official Discord existing. I have contact with a small handful on a private server where we talk about a variety of things (including advising with any contests/stuff they want to run). However, my doing so isn't killing YCM's activity for I do talk to some of them on-site as well. It's not much different than what you would do on Skype/Facebook/whatever (and it's about as active as the mod forum in terms of activity, which isn't high). 

 

Also referencing the reason for why DP users stay on their own server and not use CC, it boils down to their preference in posting messages and getting feedback as compared to forums in general; not just YCM specifically.

 

 

We all know that you dislike the Discord and its drops on activity, but yeah, cool it already and stop attacking other users who disagree with your stance.

 

Again, Tormey explicitly said there are no channels pertaining to the major areas like TCG, Custom Cards, etc. Debates isn't even on there; for the most part, it's just random discussions with a Showcase / Music channel because those areas are already inactive, even without Discord existing.


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#26
Darkrai

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It depends on how short/long of a time span they make those posts, and however many people replicate it. If done within a moderate timeframe within section guidelines and whatnot, then sure, you may consider it active. If done over a very long period of time where there is no activity for a great number of days (see Showcase for example), then not really. 

 

Building on Cow's point about members already use Discord for talking with a select group elsewhere even without the official Discord existing. I have contact with a small handful on a private server where we talk about a variety of things (including advising with any contests/stuff they want to run). However, my doing so isn't killing YCM's activity for I do talk to some of them on-site as well. It's not much different than what you would do on Skype/Facebook/whatever (and it's about as active as the mod forum in terms of activity, which isn't high). 

 

Also referencing the reason for why DP users stay on their own server and not use CC, it boils down to their preference in posting messages and getting feedback as compared to forums in general; not just YCM specifically.

 

 

We all know that you dislike the Discord and its drops on activity, but yeah, cool it already and stop attacking other users who disagree with your stance.

 

Again, Tormey explicitly said there are no channels pertaining to the major areas like TCG, Custom Cards, etc. Debates isn't even on there; for the most part, it's just random discussions with a Showcase / Music channel because those areas are already inactive, even without Discord existing.

Yeah I'm not really attacking anyone. I'm noting that they made a false claim, and I gave an factual solution to clarify, and the get all quiet. I don't really have a problem with them holding their position. Hell, I noted Giga has a point about why Discord might be preferable


If we are going talking about Statistics here, where those posts come from does matter as it could be a necessary control factor that needs to be considered. From what you described, you didn't care whether one person made those posts or a group, and that would be something I'd care about when conducting my analysis as it is a key difference between the two groups that I'd want to control for.

 

Sorry for the rushed explanation, but this damn heat has been getting to me today, and I'm not too happy about it.

Look at it this way, one treatment can be investigating if the addition of Discord reduced TCG activity. A different study can measure the variety of posters. But you don't want to mix up multiple treatments when trying to prove causation


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#27
Phantom Roxas

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Yeah I'm not really attacking anyone. I'm noting that they made a false claim, and I gave an factual solution to clarify, and the get all quiet. I don't really have a problem with them holding their position. Hell, I noted Giga has a point about why Discord might be preferable

 
Okay, I'm just going to clarify this. I got quiet because I saw no value in continuing a conversation with you. It's not that my claims were somehow false, nor that what you call "facts" intimidated me into silence. No one was impatient to wait for a rebuttal.
 
You outright claimed that you are "actually objectively right here." What point is there in trying to have a discussion with someone who declares themselves to be correct but then claims it's everyone else who is "so set in their views"?


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#28
Nathanael D. Striker

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Look at it this way, one treatment can be investigating if the addition of Discord reduced TCG activity. A different study can measure the variety of posters. But you don't want to mix up multiple treatments when trying to prove causation


You do realize that I said that where the posts came from should be controlled for, right? It's not throwing in another treatment, it's throwing in a covariate in order to do an ANCOVA analysis instead of an ANOVA analysis. Next time, don't try to make the person studying Statistics in Graduate School look stupid.

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#29
VCR_CAT

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Just to also chime in, but speculation isn't "factual evidence". At no point has hard evidence or numbers been actually provided, all of this has been "Yeah but this was more/less active at this point!" based entirely on subjective observation and what that person remembers from 2-3 years ago.

 

That isn't factual evidence. That isn't "statistics". That's rough speculation and anecdotal evidence. If you want to make a point, bring in the actual analytics as well as a feasible reason for a correlation to equal causation and that it's not just something else; otherwise we have just as much reason to take "Discord ruins YCM" seriously as "Discord improves YCM".

 

Don't talk "Objectively right" or "Factually true" when you aren't even actually doing anything to make your argument such.


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#30
Gappy Higashikata

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Well of course more activity would be on a discord, since you can post many smaller messages on a platform like discord rather than a forum such as this, where posts generally have more effort put into them than your average one-liner on discord. It's a natural evolution in the way people communicate, it's why more people these days use Snapchat/Instagram than facebook because simply pressing a button and typing out one line is much easier than having to put effort in. Never mind that YuGiOh was popular in early-mid 2000's and is slowly winding down since the audience that grew up with it is now mostly uninterested in it and the site literally has YuGiOh in the name. In this regard one of the only ways I can see a rise in activity being doable is if the website is rebranded, but that kinda defeats the point of being YCM. Was there not a Pokemon/Magic card maker site+forum for each a while ago? Can we not fold all of those things under one banner and calling Trading Card Maker or something? I seem to remember seeing that once. Jeez I remember seeing YCM when it was eyebleedingly white/grey and there were maybe 300+ active users when i scrolled to the bottom of the page.



#31
Nathanael D. Striker

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Well of course more activity would be on a discord, since you can post many smaller messages on a platform like discord rather than a forum such as this, where posts generally have more effort put into them than your average one-liner on discord. It's a natural evolution in the way people communicate, it's why more people these days use Snapchat/Instagram than facebook because simply pressing a button and typing out one line is much easier than having to put effort in. Never mind that YuGiOh was popular in early-mid 2000's and is slowly winding down since the audience that grew up with it is now mostly uninterested in it and the site literally has YuGiOh in the name. In this regard one of the only ways I can see a rise in activity being doable is if the website is rebranded, but that kinda defeats the point of being YCM. Was there not a Pokemon/Magic card maker site+forum for each a while ago? Can we not fold all of those things under one banner and calling Trading Card Maker or something? I seem to remember seeing that once. Jeez I remember seeing YCM when it was eyebleedingly white/grey and there were maybe 300+ active users when i scrolled to the bottom of the page.


Those forums are owned by someone other than YCMaker. And even if they weren't, YCMaker would need to be active. So, that option is highly unlikely. And if you do wish to suggest creating another forum for that purpose, think of the money needed for such a venture.

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#32
Dae

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I'm honestly surprised there is a community on a forum, even if it isn't all that big. Most of the newer things have pushed away from dedicated forum sites, but I guess people still hold to what they enjoy. It is nice to have this, being a smaller community where everyone knows each other. YCM is simply that and nothing has changed that, nor will things until we all finally move on from this site.

If things were going to kill YCM, it would have happened already. Activity fluctuates here. Sometimes it doesn't occur, it could be hours before a new post, or we have hundreds of new posts within a couple of hours. All good.


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#33
Darkrai

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Just to also chime in, but speculation isn't "factual evidence". At no point has hard evidence or numbers been actually provided, all of this has been "Yeah but this was more/less active at this point!" based entirely on subjective observation and what that person remembers from 2-3 years ago.

 

That isn't factual evidence. That isn't "statistics". That's rough speculation and anecdotal evidence. If you want to make a point, bring in the actual analytics as well as a feasible reason for a correlation to equal causation and that it's not just something else; otherwise we have just as much reason to take "Discord ruins YCM" seriously as "Discord improves YCM".

 

Don't talk "Objectively right" or "Factually true" when you aren't even actually doing anything to make your argument such.

I'm not really speculating though. A diff and diff calculation isn't speculation

 

Edit: Ruin and Improve are not statistical or objectively defined terms here. I can say that Discord reduced activity in TCG with a certain degree of significance. 

 

Also OMG, did you literally not read anything in the last 2 pages (lol ofc you didn't). I literally explained that a diff and diff isn't correlation but rather a prover of causation.


You do realize that I said that where the posts came from should be controlled for, right? It's not throwing in another treatment, it's throwing in a covariate in order to do an ANCOVA analysis instead of an ANOVA analysis. Next time, don't try to make the person studying Statistics in Graduate School look stupid.

That's not what I was trying to do Striker. I just think it's a separate problem. 2016 Debates being centralized around the same 6-7 people is a problem, but not one related to activity. 

 

I'm not sure how to explain to people like Drew and Roxas that Diff and Diff or 2SLS is objectivity and not "speculation"


 
Okay, I'm just going to clarify this. I got quiet because I saw no value in continuing a conversation with you. It's not that my claims were somehow false, nor that what you call "facts" intimidated me into silence. No one was impatient to wait for a rebuttal.
 
You outright claimed that you are "actually objectively right here." What point is there in trying to have a discussion with someone who declares themselves to be correct but then claims it's everyone else who is "so set in their views"?

Dismissing a causation calculation as nonobjective is like saying 1+1=2 is subjective

 

Now Striker's point is that I don't have 1+1 but rather 1+2, therefore I'm off in my conclusion, but that's not what you and other armchair folks here are implying


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#34
Phantom Roxas

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Dismissing a causation calculation as nonobjective is like saying 1+1=2 is subjective
 
Now Striker's point is that I don't have 1+1 but rather 1+2, therefore I'm off in my conclusion, but that's not what you and other armchair folks here are implying


You never provided any such calculation. At most, you alluded to how such a calculation could be conducted, but you did not conduct the calculation yourself. You appear to be arguing as if the calculation has already proven to be in your favor, but there is no actual evidence to support your claims. I agree with VCR_CAT that "At no point has hard evidence or numbers been actually provided".


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#35
Gappy Higashikata

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Those forums are owned by someone other than YCMaker. And even if they weren't, YCMaker would need to be active. So, that option is highly unlikely. And if you do wish to suggest creating another forum for that purpose, think of the money needed for such a venture.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea about those since I've been sparsely lurking for years. 



#36
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To be fair, forums aren't completely defunct.

The long, almost rambling discussions we've had, that honestly could best be defined as arguments, are better suited to this format than that of discord or another live chat. Now, the problem with this fact is pretty clear, as the content of said discussions actively drives people away from them, but even still, it's something.

There are sections other than TCG that are honestly thriving these days. RP is more active than it has ever been since the introduction of an ounce of quality control. Misc and the status bar still see traffic, even though they fill a similar role to discord.

Put simply, TCG may be dead, but that doesn't mean it's discord's fault. When there is something particularly interesting to discuss, people will discuss it, just as they did in the past. And if people don't want to be discussing it on the forum, it really is no five alarm fire like it's often made out to be. Due to the absent lordship situation that YCM is in, lack of forum activity doesn't present the risks it does to many other sites.

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