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(TCG) May 21st Banlist


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#41
Quokka FLOCKA

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this banlist I think barely hit a dent in this format like seriously..

 

We are literally playing in a new format, even before they announced the banlist because of FLOD p0w3r


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#42
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somewhat debatable. while nowhere near the extent of grass, cards like monster gate, reasoning, and fiend comedian, among other cards, can all work as viable replacements for grass, though cutting the related decks down to 50 would be advisable, 50-60 card decks still have options (especially infenoids, who can swap the left arms and grasses for more support cards)

Without grass, what would motivate you to run significantly more than 40 cards? Yes, reasoning is good in infernoid, but every single card you run past 40 decreases your likelihood of seeing it.

Grass created incentive for running decks with 60 cards, and, for the most part, the decks weren't significantly hurt by that size increase, but without it, there is no reason to stray far from 40.

#43
vla1ne

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Without grass, what would motivate you to run significantly more than 40 cards? Yes, reasoning is good in infernoid, but every single card you run past 40 decreases your likelihood of seeing it.

Grass created incentive for running decks with 60 cards, and, for the most part, the decks weren't significantly hurt by that size increase, but without it, there is no reason to stray far from 40.

3 decatron are the only monsters in my infernoids that i can hit off of reasoning and monster gate. adding in void feast, which i can search with vanishment. that means that even if i don't find reasoning/ monster gate, the deck can mill more than well enough, and with imagination, FuFu, comedian, and launch, alongside the S/T support that helps the deck from field and grave, the deck is capable of plussing off of a 50 card build. 

 

fufu throws just about every monster in the deck to grave, the benefits of which i need not elaborate, leaving you with mostly S/T support to draw every turn, which is what the deck thrives on. and considering what happens when fufu resolves, this card resolving should be the only card you need to win (assuming no wall)

 

Comedian, while not always the strongest card, has no downsides on resolution, either removing all grave resources from your opponent (chaining Against decks like altergeist, this is pretty strong) or milling that same number of cards, (infenoids, milling, you get the point)

 

launch, while slow. only gets stronger over time, and counts as another name for feast to discard/send, while dodging lilith's S/T nuke, meaning it doesn't hurt you at all to have it, and losing it, when threats like fufu could just as easily surface, means one less resource to stop you from going off for real.

 

left arm takes resources from hand to use, while grass mitigates this, no other card bar gate and reasoning do, removing it frees up room for support and swarming power in the form of the void card(s) engine, which, with the most recent addition of feast. (and the remaining presence of imagination/vanishment) the deck retains enough inherent milling power to mitigate any difficulties from the high card number.

 

all of this means you have about 14+ S/T cards to boost consistency, most of which mill heavily(reasoning/gate/fufu), or hit specific cards (imagination/launch), and the rest either get you directly to what you need (feast), or get massively stronger with time(comedian). those are the most common ones. combined with access to floodgates like quiet life, which can help slow down massive plays before they start, the deck, at 50 cards, is surprisingly consistent. (after testing, i agree that 60 is too high to keep a good level of consistency though)


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#44
Quokka FLOCKA

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3 decatron are the only monsters in my infernoids that i can hit off of reasoning and monster gate. adding in void feast, which i can search with vanishment. that means that even if i don't find reasoning/ monster gate, the deck can mill more than well enough, and with imagination, FuFu, comedian, and launch, alongside the S/T support that helps the deck from field and grave, the deck is capable of plussing off of a 50 card build. 

 

fufu throws just about every monster in the deck to grave, the benefits of which i need not elaborate, leaving you with mostly S/T support to draw every turn, which is what the deck thrives on. and considering what happens when fufu resolves, this card resolving should be the only card you need to win (assuming no wall)

 

Comedian, while not always the strongest card, has no downsides on resolution, either removing all grave resources from your opponent (chaining Against decks like altergeist, this is pretty strong) or milling that same number of cards, (infenoids, milling, you get the point)

 

launch, while slow. only gets stronger over time, and counts as another name for feast to discard/send, while dodging lilith's S/T nuke, meaning it doesn't hurt you at all to have it, and losing it, when threats like fufu could just as easily surface, means one less resource to stop you from going off for real.

 

left arm takes resources from hand to use, while grass mitigates this, no other card bar gate and reasoning do, removing it frees up room for support and swarming power in the form of the void card(s) engine, which, with the most recent addition of feast. (and the remaining presence of imagination/vanishment) the deck retains enough inherent milling power to mitigate any difficulties from the high card number.

 

all of this means you have about 14+ S/T cards to boost consistency, most of which mill heavily(reasoning/gate/fufu), or hit specific cards (imagination/launch), and the rest either get you directly to what you need (feast), or get massively stronger with time(comedian). those are the most common ones. combined with access to floodgates like quiet life, which can help slow down massive plays before they start, the deck, at 50 cards, is surprisingly consistent. (after testing, i agree that 60 is too high to keep a good level of consistency though)

 

40 card Infernoid always has (except when grass was at 3) and always will be better than 60 card Infernoid. Lair Infernoids are probably the best incarnation of the deck yet. The deck pretty much wins automatically off of a resolved Imagination or Void Feast against most match ups. 


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#45
vla1ne

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40 card Infernoid always has (except when grass was at 3) and always will be better than 60 card Infernoid. Lair Infernoids are probably the best incarnation of the deck yet. The deck pretty much wins automatically off of a resolved Imagination or Void Feast against most match ups. 

 

 

...:

the deck, at 50 cards, is surprisingly consistent. (after testing, i agree that 60 is too high to keep a good level of consistency though)

 

i've never ran grass, because i didn't like building my deck up to 60. currently, my deck is 46, and i'm rebuilding it to run the lair build. the only cards in the deck that reasoning/monster gate can hit are the decatrons,  and i can field/mill them specifically (via feast or the launch) to increase the odds of milling massive amounts of cards off gate and reasoning.


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#46
Quokka FLOCKA

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...:

 

i've never ran grass, because i didn't like building my deck up to 60. currently, my deck is 46, and i'm rebuilding it to run the lair build. the only cards in the deck that reasoning/monster gate can hit are the decatrons,  and i can field/mill them specifically (via feast or the launch) to increase the odds of milling massive amounts of cards off gate and reasoning.

 

Imagination, Void Feast and Vanishment are you win conditions now, not trying to get as much use out of two cards that are one ofs. You want to see them as fast as possible. Running anymore than 40 hurt your chances of winning. 


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#47
vla1ne

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Imagination, Void Feast and Vanishment are you win conditions now, not trying to get as much use out of two cards that are one ofs. You want to see them as fast as possible. Running anymore than 40 hurt your chances of winning. 

when i resolve reasoning, fufu, or gate instead of feast or imagination, how exactly are they not equivalent wincons? i get what you mean when you say feast/ imagination + vanishment = consistent wincon, been running them long enough to get that point clearly, but at the same time, reasoning, gate, and fufu resolving have all been equally as powerful as far as wincons go. and while fufu does get popped more often than not, it remains the most potent wincon in the deck upon resolution. gate and reasoning don't get hit as often when i pull them up, since i usually bait something else before using them. all three are costless cards that are the equivalent of wincons upon resolution in the deck.

 

don't get me wrong, i'm running the void engine for maximum effect, but gate, fufu, and reasoning all have no (notable) cost, and count as wincons upon resolution, as such, adding them to the deck doesn't exactly damage it, and while 40< cards is a risk, in infernoids, the deck works better than expected at an above 40 threshold. so long as it has an abundance of powerful milling, which the above 3(5) cards(total) adds to.  


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#48
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when i resolve reasoning, fufu, or gate instead of feast or imagination, how exactly are they not equivalent wincons? i get what you mean when you say feast/ imagination + vanishment = consistent wincon, been running them long enough to get that point clearly, but at the same time, reasoning, gate, and fufu resolving have all been equally as powerful as far as wincons go. and while fufu does get popped more often than not, it remains the most potent wincon in the deck upon resolution. gate and reasoning don't get hit as often when i pull them up, since i usually bait something else before using them. all three are costless cards that are the equivalent of wincons upon resolution in the deck.
 
don't get me wrong, i'm running the void engine for maximum effect, but gate, fufu, and reasoning all have no (notable) cost, and count as wincons upon resolution, as such, adding them to the deck doesn't exactly damage it, and while 40< cards is a risk, in infernoids, the deck works better than expected at an above 40 threshold. so long as it has an abundance of powerful milling, which the above 3(5) cards(total) adds to.

just because it is better than expected doesn't mean it isn't worse than 40.

You keep saying "but it still works" without saying anything for what is gained. The only thing resembling a point in your favor is increasing the ratio of non-decatron cards, but considering the scarcity of the card that gives you benefit off doing so, as well as the decreased chance of even reaching said card due to the bloated list.

It's an issue on YCM, and internet discussion in general, where people are all too ready to trust their own, extremely limited and skewed, experiences over basic reason, mathematics, and years of tournament statistics. It's a big reason why this section is inactive as it is, whether discord exists or not.

#49
vla1ne

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just because it is better than expected doesn't mean it isn't worse than 40.

You keep saying "but it still works" without saying anything for what is gained. The only thing resembling a point in your favor is increasing the ratio of non-decatron cards, but considering the scarcity of the card that gives you benefit off doing so, as well as the decreased chance of even reaching said card due to the bloated list.

It's an issue on YCM, and internet discussion in general, where people are all too ready to trust their own, extremely limited and skewed, experiences over basic reason, mathematics, and years of tournament statistics. It's a big reason why this section is inactive as it is, whether discord exists or not.

every card added, is an additional mill card. in other words, fufu, reasoning, monster gate, and (to a point) launch, all boost consistency of the deck, even above 40, simply by the sheer amount of cards they can remove upon resolution. drawing any of the above cards, increases your overall ceiling. it's not just that they're non-decatron cards, but that they make the deck overall more powerful and consistent. my apologies, i keep forgetting to explain what i assume can be inferred.


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