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YCM Awards Finale - Giving the Winners Their Awards!


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#21
Black

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I mean, Dova is just about the only poster from CC I considered an option.

 

There's so much... bleh that comes out of CC, and Dova at least shows a consistent effort to improve, going as far as to ask other people. Citing that you gave him advice doesn't mean anything, when the fact he's willing to do that is more than you can say for a lot of Cardmakers. Someone with potential and desire to grow is superior to a lack of quality across the board.

 

I didn't vote Dova for popularity. I disn't even vote for a best Cardmaker in 2017, and that winner was far more debatable on the basis of popularity. I chose Dova because of reasons I laid out, much like others did.

 

It's not a double standard for things to be seen differently over time. It's been a year. And VCR_CAT won last year to no complaints, at least not like this.

 

These are not definitive events. This is not the objective truth. Of course popularity will be involved. If you don't like it, tough shit, that's how it is. But to say "he won because he's more popular" is incredibly hateful and dismissive, and it ignores the spirit of an event meant to celebrate the community.


 

You are an insane person and very creative.

 


#22
Yui

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Moreover, giving card reviews and suggestions wasn't a major factor for voters in the previous YCM Awards, and yet this time they were. Cannot but feel like a double standard going on there.

This sounds more like something that happened as a result of voters picking him for that reason, rather than something the host explicitly said to do. Even if the latter was the case, I have it on good authority that Black was in fact not the host this year, so differences from last year's YCM Awards are simply to be expected. However, it doesn't seem to be a host thing, the closer I look at the exact wording for Cardmaker Star. The only real requirement was to be active in CC, and reviews are a perfectly valid and as I hear it, rather rare form of activity.

 

I acknowledge Dova has strengths, such as his approachability and dedication to reviews, but from my perspective he is lacking in other departments. Granted, among the reasonings for voting for Dova was that "he wants to improve", but that gets me thinking: wanting to improve is good and all, but what about those who, you know, are better at it? Not saying I'm among those for the record, as I'm aware I have my flaws here and there.

It's almost like the YCM Awards are basically a popularity contest anyway, just with more open options to get public opinion on a greater scope of members than the YMB's more rigid structure. In fact, looking at the award descriptions...

Rising Star: Everyone's favorite member, but only on the condition that their activity here started less than two years ago.
 
Cardmaker Star: Why yes dear, most people DO come here for the cardmaker! And this award is here to show just who we love the most for using it!
 
Critic Star: Everyone loves music, or media (especially featuring me), so let's see who we like best that discusses them.
 
Three of these award descriptions imply that you should vote for who you like the most, instead of who you think is the best at it. In fact, the only one that seems to suggest you should vote for who you think is the best at all is Writing Star, where Mettaton said "Let's see who everyone thinks is the best writer." Even Artistic Star doesn't really imply one or the other.

 

Your post confuses me tbh, since it starts in ways that seem to question the validity of Dova's win for Cardmaker Star, but then at the end you're like "but this is fine tho". Shit's weird, yo.


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#23
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These are not definitive events. This is not the objective truth. Of course popularity will be involved. If you don't like it, tough shit, that's how it is. But to say "he won because he's more popular" is incredibly hateful and dismissive, and it ignores the spirit of an event meant to celebrate the community.

If popularity is involved and it's acknowledged to be a popularity contest then saying it doesn't do anything wrong in particular. 

 

From what I interpret he felt there were other people whose skills he wanted to be noticed more (could be himself or someone else), it just happens that desire isn't compatible with a contest rating each person's popularity in the community, and that's fine.

Your post confuses me tbh, since it starts in ways that seem to question the validity of Dova's win for Cardmaker Star, but then at the end you're like "but this is fine tho". Shit's weird, yo.

Because he's not trying to raise shit even if he feels he has something to say about it.


BOYS, BE AMBITIOUS!



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#24
Darj

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I mean, Dova is just about the only poster from CC I considered an option.
 
Citing that you gave him advice doesn't mean anything, when the fact he's willing to do that is more than you can say for a lot of Cardmakers. Someone with potential and desire to grow is superior to a lack of quality across the board.

 
It means that he is still lacking in skill. That doesn't in any way disregard the fact that he is willing to improve, which is indeed a great trait to have.
 

These are not definitive events. This is not the objective truth. Of course popularity will be involved. If you don't like it, tough shit, that's how it is. But to say "he won because he's more popular" is incredibly hateful and dismissive, and it ignores the spirit of an event meant to celebrate the community.

 
But that was the case, at the very least for the Card Maker Star. Just take a look at how many and who voted for Dova. 17. Roughly about 80% of them, if not more, barely hang out in CC, if at all, so from where are the votes coming from? Would you say these users had anybody else in mind for the category? I don't think so. The category wasn't even contested. If he had won by 1~3 votes, or if others had received more votes, it would have made sense, but that wasn't the case.
 
Pretty sure something similar happened with the Critic Star Award, as Hina already implied. Although the votes in that category were not as extreme.
 
I was skeptical at VCR's victory last year too, but I let it go. Also the number of votes weren't nearly as drastic, for understandable reasons. But this being a second time, felt like speaking up my mind.
 

Your post confuses me tbh, since it starts in ways that seem to question the validity of Dova's win for Cardmaker Star, but then at the end you're like "but this is fine tho". Shit's weird, yo.

 
I'm not annoyed at Dova winning, as I believe he would still have won even if only CC dwellers had voted. I'm more annoyed that other notable CC regulars didn't get to stand out at all.
 
Just wanted to give my 2 cents over the matter, but I can't really care from now on about the Awards now that I understand its nature. Admittedly I did get a bit sour/salty/bitter about the results because I thought it was meant to reward more skill than anything, but I was mistaken, and you both got a point after all in that popularity plays such a big role in the event.

 

 

fake Edit:

Usami pretty much summed up my thoughts. Thanks.


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#25
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It means that he is still lacking in skill. That doesn't in any way disregard the fact that he is willing to improve, which is indeed a great trait to have.

literally everyone here is lacking in skill. The difference is whether one seeks to remedy that.

#26
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literally everyone here is lacking in skill. The difference is whether one seeks to remedy that.

You know exactly what he meant, that another candidate, nominated or not, was less lacking in skill.


BOYS, BE AMBITIOUS!



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#27
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You know exactly what he meant, that another candidate, nominated or not, was less lacking in skill.

and I disagree with said point, but rebutted his logical argument rather than just repeating myself.

#28
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and I disagree with said point, but rebutted his logical argument rather than just repeating myself.

The rebuttal is one that he already acknowledged in that very quote. He said his opinion is that Dova's skill isn't the highest in the community but acknowledged his willingness to improve. You then tried to refute that by saying everyone's at a roughly equally low level and that willingness to improve is the deciding factor (which is ok too, is probably true?) but then last page you've stated your opinion that Dova's skill is the highest/most deserving which goes against that refuting anyway.

 

His complaint stems from a misunderstanding of what the voting criteria is, and has now been resolved. There was and is no need to continue this further.


BOYS, BE AMBITIOUS!



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#29
Darj

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literally everyone here is lacking in skill. The difference is whether one seeks to remedy that.

 
I would think that just for posting your cards, asking for feedback, replying, and applying it if applicable, shows an interest in improving one's cards and card-making skills.
I'm not speaking for myself there admittedly, as it has been a long while since I posted a card, and it doesn't help that when I did, I rarely got any reply anyway, instead resorting to asking for it, although I did get an occasional rep, but still that barely nets me any growth. But that's beyond my control. I suppose Dova is in a CC "sweet spot" where he frequently deliver reviews, and there are users around that care enough to review his works.

I'm not speaking either about those who post their works but don't take, nor seem to care about, any suggestions or advice.
 
But I understand if you value more that Dova takes the extra mile to improve, like going into the Discord group to ask questions, as Sakura mentioned when he explained his vote.

 

The rebuttal is one that he already acknowledged in that very quote. He said his opinion is that Dova's skill isn't the highest in the community but acknowledged his willingness to improve. You then tried to refute that by saying everyone's at a roughly equally low level and that willingness to improve is the deciding factor (which is ok too, is probably true?) but then last page you've stated your opinion that Dova's skill is the highest/most deserving which goes against that refuting anyway.
 
His complaint stems from a misunderstanding of what the voting criteria is, and has now been resolved. There was and is no need to continue this further.

 
Did you really have to state that it's a low level? That hurts a bit xD


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#30
Yui

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 But that was the case, at the very least for the Card Maker Star. Just take a look at how many and who voted for Dova. 17. Roughly about 80% of them, if not more, barely hang out in CC, if at all, so from where are the votes coming from? Would you say these users had anybody else in mind for the category? I don't think so. The category wasn't even contested. If he had won by 1~3 votes, or if others had received more votes, it would have made sense, but that wasn't the case.

I would like to mirror your case here with Writing Star. The criteria for the award was to be active in RP or CW, as opposed to last year's YCM Awards only focusing on one or the other two separate awards. Thing is, RP is a pretty isolated section, nearly to "closed borders" levels. Most people who mainly visit RP don't bother with other sections or even the status bar, and most people outside of RP don't really look at the section at all unless someone comes in like "yo man you should read this RP that's going on" and even that isn't a guarantee. Therefore, when YCM thinks about writing, they think about CW first and perhaps exclusively. Only two people are notably active in CW afaik, and one of them requested to not be a part of this event. Most if not all of Pika's votes for the award came from outside those two sections, because nobody really had anyone else in mind. Even last year, when I won Ultimate RPer, all of my votes came from outside RP; I won simply by being popular and people knew that was my usual haunting grounds, so they picked me. I checked. Despite my popularity and charming personality though, my RPing skills are only slightly above average at best.

 

That said, I have no opposition to Pika's victory, just to clear that up real quick. CW and RP are different enough that two Writing Stars is fine, since there isn't enough CW activity to warrant it being its own award this year.

 

I was going somewhere with this, but I lost track of it while I was checking the last YCM Awards to confirm that none of my votes actually came from within RP. Pretty sure it was something to the effect of "If I'm winning awards by being popular despite being just above average at the thing the award is about, someone who's notably skilled at cardmaking, actively writes reviews like very few CCers do, and goes to venture into new sections, absolutely deserves the award more than a typical isolated cardmaker, no matter how skilled they may be."

 

Also his votes came most notably from RP, which is basically YCM's shadow government anyway.

 

That said, this whole situation seems to be getting a bit more tense than it was supposed to be. Bottom line seems to be "You accept Dova's victory but are not in favor of it", right? We should all probably let this go, barring Darj correcting me if I'm mistaken about the thing I just said, since there isn't really much for either "side" to get from it.


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#31
Darj

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That said, this whole situation seems to be getting a bit more tense than it was supposed to be. Bottom line seems to be "You accept Dova's victory but are not in favor of it", right? We should all probably let this go, barring Darj correcting me if I'm mistaken about the thing I just said, since there isn't really much for either "side" to get from it.

 

What you say sounds about right to me.

 

Bottom line is that I was wrong by thinking the Awards were supposed to be more about skill, when it actually takes multiple factors, specially popularity. For instance, when it comes to skill, personally I think Toyo is the most skilled, but she is lacking in other traits, like activity.

 

I really should have just kept my thoughts to myself and move on. I apologize for that and stirring up any commotion.


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#32
Lambdadelta

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What you say sounds about right to me.

Bottom line is that I was wrong by thinking the Awards were supposed to be more about skill, when it actually takes multiple factors, specially popularity. For instance, when it comes to skill, personally I think Toyo is the most skilled, but she is lacking in other traits, like activity.

I really should have just kept my thoughts to myself and move on. I apologize for that and stirring up any commotion.

I don't count though because I actually did have the highest quality material in the section I won :shrug: Just memeing juxtaposing my activity to Flame Dragon's dedication, which obviously says nothing about his actual merit (else YCMaker would be the most excellent member of the community).

#33
Horu Ishayuki

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I would agree that Dova a great choice. Dova not only takes advice as mentioned above. He also tries to use what he has learned to help others improve as well. And that willingness to help others on your way up is a very admirable quality and shows that they are a fairly well rounded person in general. So Yeah, I'd go with Dova due to not only wanting to learn but also helping others along the way.

#34
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If the awards were based on skill alone a site-wide public vote would be counterproductive tbh


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#35
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If the awards were based on skill alone a site-wide public vote would be counterproductive tbh

 

We have the electoral college for that.


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