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[Debates] U.S. Black Community


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#21
mido9

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There's more white families on welfare than there are black families.

There's maybe 5 or 6 times more white families than black families




 

 

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#22
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There's maybe 5 or 6 times more white families than black families

 

The program was created for the poor.  To the poor it goes.


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#23
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The program was created for the poor.  To the poor it goes.

I think what Mido is saying is you need to consider proportions. An extreme example:

 

Say there was 99 white families and 1 black family. And of those, 9 white families were on welfare and the one black family was on welfare too. It's inaccurate to say that whites are more likely to be on welfare based on that sample. Only about 9% of White families would be on welfare in that case, compared to 100% of black families. Absolute numbers can be deceiving. 


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#24
Nathanael D. Striker

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I think what Mido is saying is you need to consider proportions. An extreme example:
 
Say there was 99 white families and 1 black family. And of those, 9 white families were on welfare and the one black family was on welfare too. It's inaccurate to say that whites are more likely to be on welfare based on that sample. Only about 9% of White families would be on welfare in that case, compared to 100% of black families. Absolute numbers can be deceiving.


Percentages can be deceiving too, you know. Without additional information about the population sizes for each group, I bet people would attempt to make sure direct comparison between groups that isn't justified by the entire data. Just some food for thought.

#25
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I agree. The statistics are bad because the samples are bad because the system is bad.

So fix the system.

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#26
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Percentages can be deceiving too, you know. Without additional information about the population sizes for each group, I bet people would attempt to make sure direct comparison between groups that isn't justified by the entire data. Just some food for thought.

0826_census_race_fig1-2.jpg

 

IMO the black population has really suffered since Roe and the LBJ great society programs. But that's correlation not causation 


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#27
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IMO the black population has really suffered since Roe and the LBJ great society programs. But that's correlation not causation 

massive correlation does at least imply causation though. 


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#28
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massive correlation does at least imply causation though. 

Doesn't necessarily imply, but makes it a lot more pleasurable for sure.

 

It makes sense tentatively however. The black birth rate plummets, and welfare encourages less reliance on a family structure. We see a pretty significant discontinuity in the post treatment period (Roe/Welfare) which would indicate a significant treatment effect (Causation)


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#29
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1) The dissonance between what is desired, and what is worked towards, within the community: and last for this list, the people who reject proper mannerisms, and ridicule those who embrace them, which is, in effect helping to destroy the chances that youths have at making it up the ladder in the world outside the hood.

I find this a completely unfair point. The rest I'm fine with. But this point I think is bullocks. You're basically telling black people their culture is not proper mannerisms. Now, it's good advice to say "If you want respect outside your own neighbourhood, you should get with majority culture because that's the way the world is". But you can't BLAME black people for the fact that their culture is seen as wrong and they don't want to assimilate. Teaching your children your culture shouldn't be something that holds them back, and if it is I don't think you can blame the people of that culture for it.


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#30
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I find this a completely unfair point. The rest I'm fine with. But this point I think is bullocks. You're basically telling black people their culture is not proper mannerisms. Now, it's good advice to say "If you want respect outside your own neighbourhood, you should get with majority culture because that's the way the world is". But you can't BLAME black people for the fact that their culture is seen as wrong and they don't want to assimilate. Teaching your children your culture shouldn't be something that holds them back, and if it is I don't think you can blame the people of that culture for it.

I'd say it's completely fair. the majority of black communities seek to be accepted/respected by the outside groups, that much is fair, and no group should be discouraged for that. but the current culture within the community has been corrupted terribly. when people riot and protest more for criminals being shot by police than they do for a child being shot by criminals, that is indisputably wrong culture. when children within the community are taught from the onset to distrust authority, while at the same time being told that they are owed the world, then that is indisputably wrong culture. when criminal ways are the norm for such neighborhoods, and proper community bonding, what existed way back when MLK was alive, is eroded away gradually, that is not proper culture. when proper grammar and desire for education is frowned upon instead of encouraged, then that is absolutely terrible culture.

 

what is desired, is acceptance outside the black community (which from most angles, you could argue they already had by late 1900's) what is, has been, and is being worked towards on the other hand, is division by race, and a false image of independence, by latching onto the government. you cannot simply wish to be accepted, and still refuse to adopt acceptable behaviors and mannerisms. it's fine to be a rowdy bunch, it's fine to have a louder and more disruptive culture in general. what is not fine though, is to promote ignorance over knowledge, crime over law, and crabs-in-a-bucket mentality over community solidarity. the black community can do better. especially if they want better.


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#31
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I'd say it's completely fair. the majority of black communities seek to be accepted/respected by the outside groups, that much is fair, and no group should be discouraged for that. but the current culture within the community has been corrupted terribly. when people riot and protest more for criminals being shot by police than they do for a child being shot by criminals, that is indisputably wrong culture. when children within the community are taught from the onset to distrust authority, while at the same time being told that they are owed the world, then that is indisputably wrong culture. when criminal ways are the norm for such neighborhoods, and proper community bonding, what existed way back when MLK was alive, is eroded away gradually, that is not proper culture. when proper grammar and desire for education is frowned upon instead of encouraged, then that is absolutely terrible culture.

 

what is desired, is acceptance outside the black community (which from most angles, you could argue they already had by late 1900's) what is, has been, and is being worked towards on the other hand, is division by race, and a false image of independence, by latching onto the government. you cannot simply wish to be accepted, and still refuse to adopt acceptable behaviors and mannerisms. it's fine to be a rowdy bunch, it's fine to have a louder and more disruptive culture in general. what is not fine though, is to promote ignorance over knowledge, crime over law, and crabs-in-a-bucket mentality over community solidarity. the black community can do better. especially if they want better.

Like I said. I agree with that point. I think you misunderstood me. That's my fault, I should have given examples.

 

Warning: Incoming overgeneralisation because I'm not American so I have no idea what exactly your culture is like.

I mean the fact that people look down on stuff like going beltless, wearing dreads, hip hop and jewelery. Which is my limited European understanding of American people based on American media.


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#32
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Like I said. I agree with that point. I think you misunderstood me. That's my fault, I should have given examples.

 

Warning: Incoming overgeneralisation because I'm not American so I have no idea what exactly your culture is like.

I mean the fact that people look down on stuff like going beltless, wearing dreads, hip hop and jewelery. Which is my limited European understanding of American people based on American media.

going beltless usually include having your pants hanging halfway to your knees. it's annoying to see, and has no professional merit, nor does it retain any cultural merit. dreadlocks are a 50/50 at the time, slowly gaining traction. the problem lies where people grow what would be called natural locks versus formed locks (not the proper name, but for convenience, roll with it). in the case of natural locks, when they let their hair remain unkempt (washing is done, but not combing) and said dreads, as a result, have no presentable qualities beyond being dreads. dreads formed into horizontal/vertical rows and grown out with care and proper maintenance, are actually becoming far more commonplace. my brother-in-law, has formed locks that go almost to the waist, and holds a position as a manager, i have shorter formed locks, and have been in line for a promotion. so it's a stigma that is slowly eroding, as it should. though the hood culture adopting dreads has somewhat damaged things, like tattoos, it's still making steady progress forwards. hip hop is not the problem rap is, and i could make an entire topic about that, but will save it for another time. and jewelry, is just tacky in abundance. It's not a cultural thing there, it's a presentation thing. don't wear 5 rings, 4 bracelets, 3 necklaces, and 4 gold teeth to an interview, it shows fiscal irresponsibility, and is far too gaudy to be looked at in a positive light. american media has its own set of problems. the way it displays people in general being one of them, but by no means the last or largest offence (again, i could go further, but it's late, and that's a whole other topic.)


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