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Assorted Spell Counter Support


Caaethil

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I'm a big fan of spell counters, so I thought I'd come up with some cards to make them more viable. The goal isn't to come up with a crazy new boss monster, but instead to supplement the cool cards the deck already has.

 

My meta awareness isn't great, so I'm sticking them here. They're mostly for fun but of course I want criticism to make them more fun/balanced. I want to get card grammar right too, so let me know if something is off there.

 
With all that said, here are the cards:
 
Citadel Spell-Thief
Lvl. 2 / DARK / [spellcaster/Tuner]
500 ATK / 500 DEF
"When this card is Summoned: you can target 1 face-up card on the field that has Spell Counters on it; remove its Spell Counters and place them on this card. If this card is sent to the Graveyard as a Synchro Material Monster: place its Spell Counters on the Synchro Summoned Monster."

[spoiler Citadel Spell-Thief]mc3yJxg.jpg

[spoiler Notes]The deck benefits from very cool synchros like Arcanite Magician and Tempest Magician. Together those two cards can be pretty great, but Arcanite Magician alone can sometimes have issues carrying its weight if you need to use its card destruction effect and can't justify investing in its ATK. Spell Counter lacks tuners which specifically play into the deck's theme - this card, if left unchecked, can give Arcanite Magician a big boost in ATK without affecting your overall Spell Counter budget. In that case, the other synchro material will be something like Musician King (from Instant Fusion). If used to summon Tempest Magician instead, this card can easily take spell counters from any level 4 Spell Counter staple (like Magical Exemplar) which you would be using as your other material anyway. Magical Exemplar could be used to summon this card in the first place, and its remaining Spell Counters would then not be wasted in the Synchro summon.

 
Spell Power Engine
[spell Card/Continuous]
"Each time a Spell Card is activated, place 1 Spell Counter on this card when that Spell resolves. Then, once for each Spell Counter on this card: you can target 1 face-up card on the field that you can place a Spell Counter on, except this card; place 1 Spell Counter on that target."

 

[spoiler Spell Power Engine]kDbM3e3.jpg

[spoiler Notes]This card has been heavily nerfed. It's fairly reasonable in power now, but maybe spell counters needed it to be a little overpowered (previously, the second effect triggered after every spell activation). But the previous state was definitely too much, so for now I'll just be keeping a close eye on this card. This card works well with the deck's big counter spenders - the Synchros - and so is also very effective with Citadel Spell-Thief.


 
Answers from the Archives
[spell Card]
"Remove any number of Spell Counters from 1 "Magical Citadel of Endymion" on your Field; Special Summon 1 Spellcaster monster from your hand, deck or GY whose Level is equal to the number of Spell Counters you removed."

 

[spoiler Answers from the Archives]jxoknJi.jpg

[spoiler Notes]I feel this deck type really suffers from its difficulty searching for pieces when you need them. This card makes it relatively straightforward to pull out pretty much any monster in the deck... maybe too straightforward? Not sure.

 

Breaker the Supreme Magical Warrior

Lvl. 5 / DARK / [spellcaster/Synchro/Effect]

1900 ATK / 1600 DEF
"1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner Spellcaster-Type monsters

When this card is Synchro Summoned: Place 2 Spell Counters on it. This card gains 200 ATK for each Spell Counter on it. You can remove 1 Spell Counter from this card to negate the activation of a Spell/Trap Card and destroy it. Then, you can place 2 Spell Counters on a face-up card you control that you can place Spell Counters on, except this card."

 

[spoiler Breaker the Supreme Magical Warrior]m7ni5vq.jpg

 

[spoiler Notes]My first new card after the initial three I posted when I first made this thread. I wanted to make a level 5 Synchro to take the place of the random staples I've used like Catastor and Armades. Level 5 is a bit more niche a bracket for this deck, but there are times when it's good to have. To reflect that, this card isn't so central to the deck. It's a nice beatstick and has some utility: it can dissuade your opponent from activating their spells/traps, or your other cards just get a boost. You have to be careful not to get it back down to 1900 or it could be easy to pick off, but with some preparation and proper support you can get even more counters on this card straight after you've brought it out, making it much more menacing than it has any right to be, and making its activated effect much less risky.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe Spell Power Engine could have a limit on how many times the second half of its effect can be used, that way you're not just putting a million spell counters on the field in one turn. It doesn't necessarily have to be once per turn, but maybe two or three would be a good limit.

Everything else looks pretty good. It's always good for an archetype to have at least a few good searching effects, so a straightforward one like Answers From the Archives would work perfectly. The special summoning from the graveyard could probably be its own spell, but even that's fine if you want to leave it in. And I definitely see the reasoning for Citadel Spell Thief.

Overall, good job with these :)

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Maybe Spell Power Engine could have a limit on how many times the second half of its effect can be used, that way you're not just putting a million spell counters on the field in one turn. It doesn't necessarily have to be once per turn, but maybe two or three would be a good limit.

Everything else looks pretty good. It's always good for an archetype to have at least a few good searching effects, so a straightforward one like Answers From the Archives would work perfectly. The special summoning from the graveyard could probably be its own spell, but even that's fine if you want to leave it in. And I definitely see the reasoning for Citadel Spell Thief.

Overall, good job with these :)

 

Thanks for the feedback, I definitely see where you're coming from. SPE is hard to balance for sure, and your suggestion works. As a general rule though I want to avoid bolting on arbitrary limitations beyond "once per turn", as when you start getting into things like "three times per turn" it just seems like band-aiding an otherwise ridiculous effect without much actual design going on. That said, your version seems better than my version, so I'll look into it and maybe go with something like that anyway.

 

Answers from the Archives was the last card I came up with, and I didn't spend too long thinking up the effect. I just decided I was going to make a searching card. It's kind of simple and ridiculous, but I think Spell Counter maybe just deserves a couple of ridiculous spells. The GY thing isn't something I put much thought in, I just figured it didn't hurt, and I think now it might make some more fun combos, like bringing back synchro materials (like Spell-Thief). But I can probably also come up with some more interesting search effects, and if I have something cool which fits that niche I might alter this one to make room. 

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Fair enough. How about, on Spell Engine, for the first effect you first place 1 Spell Counter on Engine after another "first" spell is cast, and then double it for each spell afterwards (up to a maximum, because again, we don't want this thing generating a million spell counters in one turn). Then, for the second effect, once per turn (I know, we talked about this, but bear with me) you can activate one of the following effects:

- Move a number of Spell Counters off of Engine and place half on Citadel of Endymion

- Move a number of Spell Counters off of Engine, up to the number on Citadel of Endymion, and put half on other cards (aside from Citadel of Endymion) on the field.

 

Alternatively, each spell could add two to counters to Engine and counters you move onto things other than citadel aren't halved. Or a more patchwork kind of fix to avoid just using Engine to make counters for things that can just use them straight off Engine could be "Spell counters on Engine cannot be used by other card effects". Again, that one's more patchwork-fixing like you said, but it's an idea if we're going for something a little more unique than an "X times per turn" effect.

 

As for Archives, maybe a unique alternative search could be that the monster in your graveyard could, alternatively, have had the same number of counters on it when it was sent to the graveyard as the number that you removed from the field to activate Archives. It would be a bit of a pain to have to keep track of, but it would be a bit more interesting of a mechanic and could potentially make it easier to get back big monsters that you lost. Plus, if you add a "they are revived with the number of spell counters that they had when they were sent to the graveyard" kind of effect, it could combo even better with Thief since you could get counters on him, synchro and preserve his spell counters on that synchro, then resurrect him and he'll have counters on him while the original counters are still on the synchro monster, effectively doubling your spell counter pool.

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Fair enough. How about, on Spell Engine, for the first effect you first place 1 Spell Counter on Engine after another "first" spell is cast, and then double it for each spell afterwards (up to a maximum, because again, we don't want this thing generating a million spell counters in one turn). Then, for the second effect, once per turn (I know, we talked about this, but bear with me) you can activate one of the following effects:

- Move a number of Spell Counters off of Engine and place half on Citadel of Endymion

- Move a number of Spell Counters off of Engine, up to the number on Citadel of Endymion, and put half on other cards (aside from Citadel of Endymion) on the field.

 

Alternatively, each spell could add two to counters to Engine and counters you move onto things other than citadel aren't halved. Or a more patchwork kind of fix to avoid just using Engine to make counters for things that can just use them straight off Engine could be "Spell counters on Engine cannot be used by other card effects". Again, that one's more patchwork-fixing like you said, but it's an idea if we're going for something a little more unique than an "X times per turn" effect.

 

As for Archives, maybe a unique alternative search could be that the monster in your graveyard could, alternatively, have had the same number of counters on it when it was sent to the graveyard as the number that you removed from the field to activate Archives. It would be a bit of a pain to have to keep track of, but it would be a bit more interesting of a mechanic and could potentially make it easier to get back big monsters that you lost. Plus, if you add a "they are revived with the number of spell counters that they had when they were sent to the graveyard" kind of effect, it could combo even better with Thief since you could get counters on him, synchro and preserve his spell counters on that synchro, then resurrect him and he'll have counters on him while the original counters are still on the synchro monster, effectively doubling your spell counter pool.

 

Lot to unpack here. Not 100% sure I follow all of your descriptions on Spell Power Engine, but I think I have an idea of what you're getting at.

 

I like the simplicity of Spell Power Engine being a card which, on playing a spell card, gives spell counters to other cards, ramping up the more it does so. I don't think the spell counter gain on Engine itself is a problem, as it is it only gains 1 counter per spell itself. And spending those counters reverses the ramp-up effect on your other cards, so it's almost certainly a terrible idea in almost every instance. And I think adding optional effects or putting the focus on the Engine's counters convolutes the card a bit.

 

The best solution that I can think of right now is a slightly modified version of your original solution. The new card text would be along the lines of:

 

"Each time a Spell Card is activated, place 1 Spell Counter on this card when that Spell resolves. Once per turn: once for each Spell Counter on this card, you can target 1 face-up card on the field that you can place a Spell Counter on, except this card; place 1 Spell Counter on that target."

 

Not sure if that's the most readable thing in the world, but the basic idea is to have a once per turn limit, but to avoid convoluting the effect and card text by making that effect be activated separately, by choice.

 

Lastly, for my own sanity, I don't want to have to keep track of any spell counters on card in the graveyard. That's a personal choice, balance be damned. I'd end up tearing my hair out.

 

New level 5 synchro soon though, and maybe a new boss (or co-boss, and yes I know I said I wasn't going to make any crazy boss monsters).

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All fair points, I did go overboard there. You do you, ignore me while I try to figure out where my marbles went :P

 

Nah you're good, honestly after so long getting no replies I'm just glad to have some feedback.

 

To be added to the main post tomorrow:

 

Breaker the Supreme Magical Warrior

Lvl. 5 / LIGHT / [spellcaster/Synchro/Effect]

1600 ATK / 1600 DEF

"1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner Spellcaster-Type monsters
When this card is Synchro Summoned: Place 1 Spell Counter on it. This card gains 400 ATK for each Spell Counter on it. You can remove 1 Spell Counter from this card to negate the activation of a Spell/Trap Card and destroy it. Then, you can place 2 Spell Counters on a face-up card you control that you can place Spell Counters on, except this card."
 
Like Breaker, but it gains more ATK per counter, and can have more than one counter with the help of cards like Spell-Thief (but then you need a lvl 3 non-tuner which is maybe a bit annoying), Engine, or just classics like Spell Power Grasp. It also negates activations rather than just destroying cards, with the bonus of putting counters on your others cards as it does so. So it needs support, but it pays out back to your other cards, or at least dissuades your opponent from activating anything good for a while.
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I could see someone throwing away a spell or trap to bait you into removing a spell counter from this monster so they could plow over it with a 1650+ ATK lv4 monster. Even if it puts spell counters on other cards you control, it would be worth it to destroy this guy. Of course, like you said, this card would be great with Citadel Spell Thief, that would definitely take care of that issue, but I still feel like it could at least be 1800 or 1900 to start, just so at its weakest it can hold its own against the average level 4. That is, unless there's a way to cheat it out onto the field without having to go to the trouble of synchro summoning it. That's the one reason I think it should be stronger, is that the player's going out of their way to synchro summon this thing, so it would be kind of a waste to go to that trouble just to have it mowed down by something the other player played straight out of their hand. It doesn't necessarily have to be a full 2000, but 1900 or 1800 so it can hold its own while you try to get more spell counters on it. Or, if it's mainly supposed to use its effect as protection for other more important cards, maybe give it higher defense and have that scale with spell counters.

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I could see someone throwing away a spell or trap to bait you into removing a spell counter from this monster so they could plow over it with a 1650+ ATK lv4 monster. Even if it puts spell counters on other cards you control, it would be worth it to destroy this guy. Of course, like you said, this card would be great with Citadel Spell Thief, that would definitely take care of that issue, but I still feel like it could at least be 1800 or 1900 to start, just so at its weakest it can hold its own against the average level 4. That is, unless there's a way to cheat it out onto the field without having to go to the trouble of synchro summoning it. That's the one reason I think it should be stronger, is that the player's going out of their way to synchro summon this thing, so it would be kind of a waste to go to that trouble just to have it mowed down by something the other player played straight out of their hand. It doesn't necessarily have to be a full 2000, but 1900 or 1800 so it can hold its own while you try to get more spell counters on it. Or, if it's mainly supposed to use its effect as protection for other more important cards, maybe give it higher defense and have that scale with spell counters.

 

I completely agree with you here. Issue with 1800 is that, realistically, your opponent is probably going to be happy to trade their average level 4. I do think that having to debate whether to use counters for ATK or for negations is an interesting mechanic. So I've got a few ideas to choose from for this:

  • Change the ATK to 1900. This keeps a lot of pressure on the user to hang onto Supreme Breaker's starting Spell Counter, and to get more from external sources for the secondary effect. It occurs to me that a solution like this (and even the original design) is closer to a mini Arcanite Magician than to the original Breaker, in some ways.
  • Change the ATK to 2000, but change the ATK per spell counter to 300, like the original Breaker. Mostly including this to say I thought of it, I don't think it's the best idea. This means Supreme Breaker is mostly unrivalled by random lvl 4s, but without getting crazy ATK with its first one or two counters. There's still a lot of potential ramp-up though, with cards like Engine and Spell-Thief.
  • Here's the one I'm feeling good about right now: 1900 original ATK, 2 counters to start with, and 200 ATK per counter. This takes some of the emphasis off giving it crazy high ATK, while still allowing it to get pretty good with some preparation - if you can get four counters on it from other sources, it'll go up to 3100. This isn't going to be realistic all the time, but it can be done. It also takes a bit of pressure off you to hang onto a single counter, while still forcing you to be mindful, as you could still easily spend two and be vulnerable.
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Updated Spell Power Engine and changed its notes. Also added Supreme Breaker, with notes, and changed its type to Dark. Mostly to fit the recoloured image I did, but it's also fine because that's Breaker's original attribute anyway. I was going to make him Light as a sort of 'ascended' Breaker, but I'd rather fit the image I have.

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Nice. Did you make that picture for Supreme Breaker or did you find that somewhere?

 

I recoloured the card art of Breaker the Dark Magical Warrior using GIMP (I didn't even realise that card existed until I was looking for art). The other cards just have MtG art but I wanted something more appropriate for an upgraded Breaker.

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