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#1
Flame Dragon

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I honestly do not believe having two websites for the same community is beneficial to either site and we should figure out what to do from here.

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NCM thread


Edited by YCMaker, 15 January 2019 - 12:34 PM.
Remove link to NCM

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#2
Phantom Roxas

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Keep NCM active, and allow the community to choose between which site they would rather go on. Nothing's stopping people from posting on both. Having Discord by no means hurt the site, despite it also being a second place for the community, and while that could be because Discord is a much more different format, compared to NCM and YCM sharing their own format, I don't see the harm in having YCM, NCM, and Discord all together.

 

People will gravitate wherever they feel like. It may not be beneficial to YCM or NCM, but just as long as the community is together, that's what's most important.



#3
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My solution is a give and take. YCMaker updates the place to 4.2
 
NCM gets the YCM sql logs to keep as a back-up
 
YCMaker allows someone else to be able to get stuff back up if we have another error
 
More people should have a way to stay in contact, the whole mess of half us not knowing where to meet up is a problem.
 
A big issue with just moving to NCM is that a lot of old members who come back are going to walk into a ghost town here. When I made my first acct in 09 and showed back up in 12, if this situation had occurred then, I would have never found the community again. 
 
Changes do need to happen, nobody is without blame, but the answer imo, is not to go tabula rasa
 

Keep NCM active, and allow the community to choose between which site they would rather go on. Nothing's stopping people from posting on both. Having Discord by no means hurt the site, despite it also being a second place for the community, and while that could be because Discord is a much more different format, compared to NCM and YCM sharing their own format, I don't see the harm in having YCM, NCM, and Discord all together.
 
People will gravitate wherever they feel like. It may not be beneficial to YCM or NCM, but just as long as the community is together, that's what's most important.

Divergent evolution. If you split a group in two, and let them grow on two separate islands, they grow apart and in some cases just aren't compatible anymore. My joke about not telling you about NCM was in bad taste, but this is the worst option. We're a close knit community for better or worse. Splitting it further just wont help us at all


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#4
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Keep NCM active, and allow the community to choose between which site they would rather go on. Nothing's stopping people from posting on both. Having Discord by no means hurt the site, despite it also being a second place for the community, and while that could be because Discord is a much more different format, compared to NCM and YCM sharing their own format, I don't see the harm in having YCM, NCM, and Discord all together.
 
People will gravitate wherever they feel like. It may not be beneficial to YCM or NCM, but just as long as the community is together, that's what's most important.


I think what flame is getting at is that it _will_ split the community. I’m unsure if that’s actually going to be the end result of the mess but I totally get the sentiment. Hell I know I’m too lazy to keep up with both places, at least. In a perfect world we’d have an admin who cares, but we don’t and so the staff saw a new board as the next best thing.

At the end of the day what it really should come down to, i think, is that either YCMaker himself stays active on the community and does his job, or the entire lot of us should migrate to the other board where Torm will. Its the same standard I was held to when I was on staff.
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#5
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Evilfusion was able to resolve the SQL issue in '14

 

Couldn't a solution be to give another person who is active the Evilfusion level of permissions to be able to keep this place up given YCMaker does have life commitments?

 

NCM

 

Pros: Active Admins, updated software

 

Cons: No posts or history from YCM, returning members can't access it

 

YCM:

 

Reverse NCM's situation

 

Pretty clear way to resolve this if you look at it form this dynamic 


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#6
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I don't think having more options is a bad thing. On the contrary, having less options is what disconnected the member base when the site went down. Those who didn't have the Discord channel were just left in-communicated. 

Besides, I've been ghosting around here since the site went back up and the online member base is virtually the same in number and even on the names that appear at the bottom of the page. Members don't really have a problem jumping from one of the sites to the other. 

 

-To suggest we close down doors at NCM and get back here is to go back to the continuous decay the site is having and getting subjected to YCMaker's whim and his awful track record. Frankly speaking I don't think YCMaker would have even made the site accessible if Winter hadn't done whatever he did. YCMaker was already ignoring attempted contact mails by the rest of the staff that asked for him since a while ago.

 

-To suggest we migrate all the way to NCM is not an easy solution either. This place has more traffic and ease of search so new members are bound to find YCM and we'd just end up pretty hidden from the world at NCM. Plus the history behind YCM that not all members are willing to part with. It's not that those do can don't care, but let's not make a fight out of this now that both places are up.

Maybe it's a little late to ask that. We can't solve the NCM traffic thing if posting a link to it from YCM feels like a direct attack for those who wanna preserve YCM, and the Yemachu card maker I think still only links to YCM at the bottom corner.
 

 

 

IMO, we hope YCMaker updates the server and fixes things like he said he will, and we keep NCM up and running no matter what and spread the word that it exists in case YCM ever goes down again (and I'm pretty confident on this one). Hopefully we could find a way to do this without coming across as a threat to YCM's existence.
The biggest divide is with the member base arguing to be honest.

YCMaker will probably not give anybody the power he gave Torm and who knows how the mod team will shape up after this...  NCM has a lot more of my trust at this point and I took what I needed already, but I want to be pleasantly surprised if YCM doesn't go to hell and actually starts improving.
 


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#7
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From what I understand Tormented has the same level of permissions that Evil did. Fact of the matter is that if YCMaker is unable to run the boards then he should find an admin who will, and will do it for free if the revenue is that important.
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#8
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From what I understand Tormented has the same level of permissions that Evil did. Fact of the matter is that if YCMaker is unable to run the boards then he should find an admin who will, and will do it for free if the revenue is that important.

Maybe, but Tormented couldn't access the ACP during the shutdown or edit the SQL to fix the error. I was just starting college when the YCM crash of 14 went down and Evil took a while but got it up. 

 

There are some wonky things with running on an outdated 3.4 system that might have made a difference. Like couldn't Evilfusion see the PHP files. Ever since he retired we've been running blind, it's not super shocking we ended up in this problem.

 

I agree on the last part, most of us here on the remain side (and I assume most on the leave side) are here for the community and history, the revenue doesn't matter to us, and YCMaker can have it. We just need someone who can fix things when he's not around, which I can understand.


 

To be fair, he did also reply when Tormey emailed him a few years ago. There's more one can desire from YCMaker sure, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the smart idea imo.

 

By having two communities we're inherently going to slow traffic down since most of us don't have time to browse two sites


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#9
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Keep NCM active, and allow the community to choose between which site they would rather go on. Nothing's stopping people from posting on both. Having Discord by no means hurt the site, despite it also being a second place for the community, and while that could be because Discord is a much more different format, compared to NCM and YCM sharing their own format, I don't see the harm in having YCM, NCM, and Discord all together.
 
People will gravitate wherever they feel like. It may not be beneficial to YCM or NCM, but just as long as the community is together, that's what's most important.

 
I'd argue a forum and discord have different strengths and this would be a bit different. Forums generally have more time lag, more dedicated places to talk about a given subject, and long posts. Discords meanwhile have more immediate dissuasions on topics which allows for more shift it topic. YCM and NCM are meant to do the same thing which is where I believe issues can come up from.
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#10
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I think what flame is getting at is that it _will_ split the community. I’m unsure if that’s actually going to be the end result of the mess but I totally get the sentiment. Hell I know I’m too lazy to keep up with both places, at least. In a perfect world we’d have an admin who cares, but we don’t and so the staff saw a new board as the next best thing.

At the end of the day what it really should come down to, i think, is that either YCMaker himself stays active on the community and does his job, or the entire lot of us should migrate to the other board where Torm will. Its the same standard I was held to when I was on staff.

 

Seems the split in the community was already there and this is the catalyst. I'm all for diversifying admin power, but I'll need to see the candidates before committing further; its no secret there are several people once regulars on this forum I'm not ready to see gain more power. 

 

And really? The thought of this forum being possibly scrapped isn't just spitting in the face of the regulars still here-like Nyx, Necro, Astral, Izumi, yours two-time-Post-Leaderboard Champion truly-and those behind us who may yet return, like Valkyrus, Smeagle, and Spoony, but everyone on Youtube who's ever given us a holler on this site, still has links to our cards, still holds candles to our effort to make the best Yugioh community ever. Roxas and Cow mentioned how this site was everything to them, and being with NCM was like moving out of a deadbeat's house to set up your own.

 

...Focus was never on the dads, deadbeat or not, its the kids; and forcing them to pick homes brings back horrid memories of my childhood I joined this site to exorcize.

 

Seems about all. BD'S, singing off.

 

P.S. I am not done with my work on this site. Not by a long shot. I know many others on this site and beyond that'd co-sign. Think of them, too-I've already got one on my door wondering if this site will still be here tomorrow, and the issues with the firewall isn't what causes their fear-its their issues with this apparently mature admin and one of them nuking the site out of spite. And I don't know if YCM or Cow's names being dropped in them that depresses me more. You're all in this TOGETHER, whether you think so or not. ACT. LIKE. IT.


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#11
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I'd argue a forum and discord have different strengths and this would be a bit different. Forums generally have more time lag, more dedicated places to talk about a given subject, and long posts. Discords meanwhile have more immediate dissuasions on topics which allows for more shift it topic. YCM and NCM are meant to do the same thing which is where I believe issues can come up from.


Basically this.

Maybe, but Tormented couldn't access the ACP during the shutdown or edit the SQL to fix the error. I was just starting college when the YCM crash of 14 went down and Evil took a while but got it up. 
 
There are some wonky things with running on an outdated 3.4 system that might have made a difference. Like couldn't Evilfusion see the PHP files. Ever since he retired we've been running blind, it's not super shocking we ended up in this problem.
 
I agree on the last part, most of us here on the remain side (and I assume most on the leave side) are here for the community and history, the revenue doesn't matter to us, and YCMaker can have it. We just need someone who can fix things when he's not around, which I can understand.

To be fair, he did also reply when Tormey emailed him a few years ago. There's more one can desire from YCMaker sure, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the smart idea imo.
 
By having two communities we're inherently going to slow traffic down since most of us don't have time to browse two sites


Winter the guy has literally been absent for year+ at a time and is massively difficult to get a hold of (trust me, I was on staff for a few occasions when we tried). Its frankly ridiculous that at the very least he hasn’t provided someone, somewhere, a reliable means of contacting him, let alone failing to update the board and whatever else has been neglected to the point of comedy in regards to the actual running of the site. The fact that we have such a strong community in spite of that is a small miracle. And it DESERVES a stable place, in my opinion.
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#12
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Ok so... new approach here: What CAN we actually do?
We can control virtually everything about NCM, but it almost doesn't matter what we decide on in terms of YCM's side, it's not like YCMaker is gonna change whatever he's got planned.

We either can do nothing about it or NCM people would need to come back, and many won't..... Both sides have people that don't wanna migrate.


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#13
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On my end, I'm posting here to say that although I'm a relatively quiet member and I doubt what I have to say carries much impact to most people, I have no desire to return to this site as long as YCMaker is in an admin position.

 

He's almost entirely hands off with the site, unless it's to do something overall negative, and had to practically be stalked to figure out what was going on during multiple different downtimes. This one might be the worst so far, but I doubt it'll be the last one.

 

Even if he did pick up the slack and start being more active, the trust in him is pretty low overall, and the only way I would return to this particular board is if he gave someone else control entirely and was no long an admin of the site. If the community decides to return entirely to YCM and he's still in charge, I won't be returning personally.



#14
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I feel like you guys are ignoring the biggest thing here: It is a fucking site. If this is the most important thing to you, all the history and shit here, that is kind of pathetic. If you stay here for your friends, you should learn that there are other means to talk to them and maintain that friendship rather than using this forum as a median to do so.

Really, YCM should have died a long time ago. The making of a new site is fantastic since it will be a lot more hands-on work from the moderating team, which is already better than this place. The updating of the forum is not going to make this place better when YCMaker is going to not update any problem that arises when this site crashes. 

 

If you want to stay here, then post; It means that you cannot complain about the features that this site has when there is already a better option available. The cardmaker here is outdated, while the forum itself has been having problems since day 1. The split of the communities is really a non-issue when the Discord has already split the community in some form, also taking on the moniker of NCM Official Discord. There is nothing really here anymore nor should there be anything that is important, when the community has a better option and there is no clear indication of whether or not YCMaker will do anything passed updating the forum.

Part of the charm of the site is that it is faulty and that the mod teams skirts around whatever wall there is to try and fix it, but I don't really care about that either. If I want to post cards or something, I will do it in other places. I'll stay to see some comes of this place, though.


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#15
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I have no problem with the existence of a competing forum. We won't be advertising it on this site (in the form of nav links in the header or pinned topics). This site has been free to use since its inception, and as such anyone is free to come and go as they please. I have done my best to keep it online and running for the past 14 years. Many sites have come and gone in that time. 

 

Re: issues with the stability of the forum software, many change have been made in the Admin CP without my permission. While well-intentioned, the net result of all these plugins being added, templates modified, settings tweaked is that the forum is not nearly as stable as it should be. I prefer to run 3rd party software as close to stock as possible to avoid these types of problems accumulating over time. I understand that the users of this forum want features added and changes made, and I'm not usually available to do it myself. 

 

With the migration to IP.Board v4, I will be looking at possible solutions to keep the forum updated in a timely fashion, while consolidating control over the backend of the site. Most likely I will need to hire a person with a background in web dev to act as a secondary admin. Currently YCM barely earns enough money through ad revenue to pay for its servers, so this could prove difficult, but I'll try my best to make it happen. I'm not blind to the fact that this forum needs someone more actively running it.



#16
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YCMaker, can I call you daddy? You make me want so much, but really I just want you to hold me and tell me I matter.


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#17
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YCMaker, can I call you daddy? You make me want so much, but really I just want you to hold me and tell me I matter.


I'm all for having some fun, but can you not do that here.
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#18
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I have no problem with the existence of a competing forum. We won't be advertising it on this site (in the form of nav links in the header or pinned topics). This site has been free to use since its inception, and as such anyone is free to come and go as they please. I have done my best to keep it online and running for the past 14 years. Many sites have come and gone in that time. 
 
Re: issues with the stability of the forum software, many change have been made in the Admin CP without my permission. While well-intentioned, the net result of all these plugins being added, templates modified, settings tweaked is that the forum is not nearly as stable as it should be. I prefer to run 3rd party software as close to stock as possible to avoid these types of problems accumulating over time. I understand that the users of this forum want features added and changes made, and I'm not usually available to do it myself. 
 
With the migration to IP.Board v4, I will be looking at possible solutions to keep the forum updated in a timely fashion, while consolidating control over the backend of the site. Most likely I will need to hire a person with a background in web dev to act as a secondary admin. Currently YCM barely earns enough money through ad revenue to pay for its servers, so this could prove difficult, but I'll try my best to make it happen. I'm not blind to the fact that this forum needs someone more actively running it.


See this is a little frustrating YCMaker. There are people with web dev skills like Evilfusion who were knee capped. Most of the mod team isn't looking to screw you, but it's hard as others noted to run a forum when you're not around.

We can't exactly ask you for permission to add things to the forum when you're rarely around. We had to build our own card maker from scratch. We're willing to trust you, why won't you trust us?
Everything that was added helped keep people here, and was done in good faith. We managed best what we could. When you mention consolidation it sounds like demoting everyone and not even letting people bandage the leaks.

The community in large part would be more at ease if you could trust one of us to keep things stable.

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#19
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See this is a little frustrating YCMaker. There are people with web dev skills like Evilfusion who were knee capped. Most of the mod team isn't looking to screw you, but it's hard as others noted to run a forum when you're not around.

We can't exactly ask you for permission to add things to the forum when you're rarely around. We had to build our own card maker from scratch. We're willing to trust you, why won't you trust us?

Please do not assume my voice. I don't trust YCMaker.

Also, YCMaker never said anything about not trusting us. If this is a step forward for the site, which it is not, then he is going on records that he knows about, not others. Any context of the community before this step wouldn't really make sense since he was not really a part of the community. 

As it is now, YCMaker only knows that we screwed up the stability of this site by adding secondary features which messed with the stock program. He has every right to step out of the community for help if it is necessary. By hiring someone, he is vetting them beyond just being a part of this community. They become an employee whose sole goal is to maintain the backend of this site, not to act as a community savior. 


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#20
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The way he mentioned someone disabled the anti spam measure struck me as him not trusting us

I was wrong to say we, my apologies. Speaking for myself YCMaker. There is valuable history here for some members that we don't wanna see gone. You, for reasons, have been largely absent which puts us in the dark. The last admin who had the same powers as you retired almost a year ago. People here think you're unreliable. A way to assuage that might be to trust somone in the community with the power to change things.

Currently we can't back up YCM, restore it, etc. The frustrations of people leaving is understandable, but a split is prisoners delima

What happens if YCM goes down again? We couldn't register people for months till Evil found a way by repurposing dead spam accounts. A member had to build a new card maker since the official one is so outdated. The PHP files crashed and we can't save images anymore. The leavers have a good reason to be upset, we're basically powerless. The December crash was just a culmination. There's blame to go around for YCMs decline in 2017/18

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